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Intolerance against Paganism and in general ...
After watching the negative reaction of somebody to the rising of Paganism with the new cults and religions, like Wicca, Goth and Neopaganism, I want to know your opinion about it. And furthermore to discuss world Intolerance in general also ....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by AJSwicca on
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Hell yea, woman!
Sehkmet kalikalmata said:Wow, I have no words for their ignorance, A friend of mine, would, in marker beside it, thank, I know now have a great day, blessed be, I would personally add a middle finger with a pentagram ring on it just for the extra, fuck you.
Jade said:Tonight i go out to smoke a cigarette and discover that my car has been egged and written on it was the word "Witch"! Gee, i wonder why I was targeted???? I am really disapointed. I moved to a small town six months ago. I have good friends here now but still notice people giving me dirty looks because of my piercings and visable pagan tattoos. But i expected that. not all people are judgemental but some still are and i knew i had to deal with that!! But for somebody to come to my house and egg my car and write witch on it was not something i expected. This has happened to me before- in my old town, but it was my house and it was spray painted. thankfully that didnt happen this time- thank to goddess for small favors, right? I cant really be mad right now because i am too shocked, but im sure i will be pissed tommorrow when i have to clean that off. Luckly the people didn't know what they were doing and used washable markers- another small favor. *sigh* idk- im disapointed in people right now. I feel like i am a nice person, i listen and respect other peoples religion and dont preach my own. i dont know how people can be so mean and judgemental. it is really upsetting. A little part of me died while discovering my car covered in egg goo. The part that had hope for man-kind accepting pagans fully one day. I know this was probably only one or two people who made a bad discision, but i cant help but feel that way. I want to cry- but not for me or my car, but for pagans in general who go through this kind of thing. The fact that this still happens is so...... idk...... disapointing. I know compared to the witch burnings and jew pursecutions this is nothing- but it kills a part of you just the same.
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Permalink Reply by Earth's Outcast on
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Thank you cynical, and I agree with your statement. HARMONY is what Paganism is about, we don't need churches, ministries, or anything else the christians have. Besides before our great cities and civilizations, we grew up with nature, feared it, revered it and respected it. So therefore all Pagans and Neopagans reallly have to do is to continue what our ancestors did before
the cities where built and continue their traditions, or else we are nothing and you all know it. So get off your high horses and see the logic.
Blessed be.
cynical said:Ignorance can often breed contempt. People who do not know the ways of all paths of Paganism and all the other paths outside of Christianity will often think of what is, quote unquote the norm (conservative right), that there is only one religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. We all have the right to choose how or what or when or why we worship. That means we can follow any beliefe we have-even atheism. Our Constitution guarantees that.
I served my country and its people and protected our country's allies and friends for 20 years of my life. One of my duties was to uphold and obey the Constitution. It really makes me sick that some people will try to exert their pressure(s) in what ever way they deem necessary just to coerce some one into following some thing against their will. I, myself will not put up with it. We all have the right to do what we want (within confines of reason, of course). Other cultures have done it for thousands of years.
This site is great. Let's keep it that way by not infringing on those who want to worship differently than another. Harmony, people, not adversity and anomousity. MERRY PART and BLESSINSG BE ALWAYS to ALL here.
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Permalink Reply by Ragnorok on
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When our country was founded and the Constitution made into law.They only saw the freedoms of Mainstream as religion.As we all know they saw witchcraft as a pact with the Devil and must be destroyed. Pretty much you where safe if you where a devout christian, and didn't have any unusual querks for spoiled little girls to point a finger at.I myself was raised in the Roman Catholic faith as a child.I went to a catholic school and to be quite honest by 5th grade they started in on how other religions where wrong, and even the Hebrew faith was wrong. As a kid going through a testing your faith kind of year, I seriously thought about it first Christ was Hebrew, but the ones who dominated the religion where the ones who put him to death.So they had control of what went into the bible, Then the Church became its own entity. Obey Us or else! For centuries the church controlled the world. And thats a lot of heavy shit landing on a 10 year old's mind laying in a hospital bed after having his kidney removed.
cynical said:Ignorance can often breed contempt. People who do not know the ways of all paths of Paganism and all the other paths outside of Christianity will often think of what is, quote unquote the norm (conservative right), that there is only one religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. We all have the right to choose how or what or when or why we worship. That means we can follow any beliefe we have-even atheism. Our Constitution guarantees that.
I served my country and its people and protected our country's allies and friends for 20 years of my life. One of my duties was to uphold and obey the Constitution. It really makes me sick that some people will try to exert their pressure(s) in what ever way they deem necessary just to coerce some one into following some thing against their will. I, myself will not put up with it. We all have the right to do what we want (within confines of reason, of course). Other cultures have done it for thousands of years.
This site is great. Let's keep it that way by not infringing on those who want to worship differently than another. Harmony, people, not adversity and anomousity. MERRY PART and BLESSINSG BE ALWAYS to ALL here.
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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The end of bigotry, intolerance and discrimination against Paganism can eventually end only just through a really well articulated plan of action. This is what I'm planning to do next. For the moment I still believe, as a founder of this community, it's better to stop my postings in this site, until my mission will be hopefully legitimated and approved. For further infos and reference I will post in the future, in www.neopagan.com, my thoughts and visions. In trying to achieve my goal it's better to get the help and understanding of many of you, instead of getting punches in the face... Then I take a moment of "reflection" now!
However it is really important to understand that if I act as a kind of severe censor it's just because the goal of my mission requires a momentary special effort of added clarity! Especially, we need, momentarily, to put aside our personal visions, to strenghten up, to create a unique force, based on historical proof with legitimate correlated documents. Then the whole Pagan community will benefit from this reform that will create a new perspective and acceptance from a Non Pagan perspective!!
To achieve that, I will create a structure that under my supervision will have a committee or board of Pagan folks. A structure that can represent the whole worldwide Pagan community. Whoever will be interested and will embed the needed requirements is welcome to join!!
Its not an easy task, but this is mainly my mission....
now I will say nothing more! ... See ya soon at www.neopagan.com!!
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Permalink Reply by terminally curious on
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Yes, wow, Donna! Aren't you frightened being targeted like that? Personally, I couldn't stay- you're tough. I live in a rural area on the edge of Chicago suburbs, so it's dominated by Christians, maybe 10-20 % are zealous, but they're more cosmopolitan here. My 16 tyear old has had similar discussions at school, but she has a strong personality and a reputation as an over achiever so she's actually convinced several students that morals come from within the individual and are not dependent on religion.She's friendly with some homeschooled Christians and manages to broaden their outlooks without being a "bad influence".The teachers, at least, have always been fair and open-minded. Was your grandson in a public school when he got scolded for not praying? What did his parents think about that, did they do anything?
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Several of the authors of the Constitution described themselves as Deists, which was about as close as a person could get to atheism at the time and still be a functioning member of society. Jefferson , in particular, was rumored by his neighbors to be atheistic, in temperament at least. Knowing he could not accomplish his goals without some public approval,he attended a different church every Sunday rather than betray his beliefs completely by subscribing to any one. Some will call this cowardly, but it was practical and he got to put his ideas in the Constitution.
Part of what prompted my separation from childhood Catholicism was realizing how much it and other established religions were based on their pagan predecessors.so I understand where Paolo is coming from and would like to see classes on comparative religion offered to middle and high schoolers (I had a unit in 7th grade- in the 60's). Like him also, I'm attracted by a faith that calls on one to exercise power rather than submit or simply be thankful.Over the years, I have also discovered the importance of expressing positive beliefs in defining onesself, being proactive. Defining one's beliefs in a negative way( I'm non-Christian, I don't believe in original sin, I don't go to church,etc.) creates a void that others are apt to fill with their snap judgements (you must not have a moral code, your kids receive no guidance,etc.). While it may shock people momentarily to hear you state your beliefs ( I particularly like "original sanctity"), it shuts them up and they are far less likely to see you as not having morals. Since you have just stated them, they are forced to perceive that it is possible to have different morals.
That being said, I differ from Paolo, in that what attracted me to Neopaganism recently and,ironically,is that it strikes me as anti-dogma by nature. I guess it's not what the founder intended but this site has brought pagans out from the woodwork and it seems we are a diverse,original, deeply thoughtful and tolerant lot. Isaac Bonewit says on his site, "Trying to organize pagans is like trying to herd cats." So good luck with that, Paolo. Thank you, though, for creating a place to find the sense of community that some of us have been craving.
Lord Ragnorauk the 1st said:When our country was founded and the Constitution made into law.They only saw the freedoms of Mainstream as religion.As we all know they saw witchcraft as a pact with the Devil and must be destroyed. Pretty much you where safe if you where a devout christian, and didn't have any unusual querks for spoiled little girls to point a finger at.I myself was raised in the Roman Catholic faith as a child.I went to a catholic school and to be quite honest by 5th grade they started in on how other religions where wrong, and even the Hebrew faith was wrong. As a kid going through a testing your faith kind of year, I seriously thought about it first Christ was Hebrew, but the ones who dominated the religion where the ones who put him to death.So they had control of what went into the bible, Then the Church became its own entity. Obey Us or else! For centuries the church controlled the world. And thats a lot of heavy shit landing on a 10 year old's mind laying in a hospital bed after having his kidney removed.
cynical said:Ignorance can often breed contempt. People who do not know the ways of all paths of Paganism and all the other paths outside of Christianity will often think of what is, quote unquote the norm (conservative right), that there is only one religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. We all have the right to choose how or what or when or why we worship. That means we can follow any beliefe we have-even atheism. Our Constitution guarantees that.
I served my country and its people and protected our country's allies and friends for 20 years of my life. One of my duties was to uphold and obey the Constitution. It really makes me sick that some people will try to exert their pressure(s) in what ever way they deem necessary just to coerce some one into following some thing against their will. I, myself will not put up with it. We all have the right to do what we want (within confines of reason, of course). Other cultures have done it for thousands of years.
This site is great. Let's keep it that way by not infringing on those who want to worship differently than another. Harmony, people, not adversity and anomousity. MERRY PART and BLESSINSG BE ALWAYS to ALL here.
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Permalink Reply by JOSH on
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I feel that people reject what they don't know . . . You have to be really open minded to follow what we follow . It's not a part of the everyday lifestyle and we have to understand where they're coming from too . It does sound pretty crazy if you know nothing else then what is commonly said about it . Josh
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Dragon Knight,
Thanks for your acknowledgements and support of my "vision". As I said I won't reply anymore here, for the moment, until my thoughts will be fully explained at www.neopagan.com
However a thank to you was due from my side.
One last thing I like to say: all Pagan followers here and worldwide need to make an effort to go beyond personal visions and differences momentarily, to create a unitary movement that will promote the acceptance of this multifaceted spiritual phenomenon or however you like to call it! For the good of all of us....
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Permalink Reply by Lady Lunar Whisper on
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Paolo,
You misunderstood me, and that sadly is what " happens " when it's in black and white. As agreed by too many scholars to count. Writing, while it's a good thing can and is taken out of the context it was meant. You do have your vision, and I applaud you for that, as well as standing firm on it. I also applaud you for this site that you created as well. We, as Pagans/Wiccans Druids, etc ( as that list is endless too ) may not always agree, but is that not what makes
" us " different from the rest ? I can say that I'm not " into " a certain belief or whatever, but that in itself is foolish, as it's not for me to deside. Heck, I may even learn from what I don't necessarilly believe in. There may very well be facts that I may learn from. That we all can learn from. This is a nice site. One that people should be able to " digest ". I read what Donna said about the school. If one were Christian, there'd be no problem ( I suspect due to a lot of money and legal Depts. that I'm sure are mind boggeling ). I know first hand, as I was just in the hospital and my husband brought my Tarot Cards for me. They were confiscated as if he were smuggeling a gun to me. I went to the desk and told them it's my right to have them, and there are laws to protect me, as there are laws to protect a prisoner that is allowed to have a High Priestess or High Priest come to see them, with an athame, sword and what have you to do a Riutal. For " closed minds " this fuels fear, and that's sad. So, I propose we burry the hatchet, and learn from each other, even if we don't agree. It's NOT right that you don't voice your own opinion on YOUR web site. It really is. Like I said, and I do not back down from what I believe, nor should it. In black and white, things are not as they may be intended. No more " olive branches " over this, as in itself, it's silly. Pagans behaving badly.
Bless Be,
lunarwhisper
Paolo R. said:Dragon Knight,
Thanks for your acknowledgements and support of my "vision". As I said I won't reply anymore here, for the moment, until my thoughts will be fully explained at www.neopagan.com
However a thank to you was due from my side.
One last thing I like to say: all Pagan followers here and worldwide need to make an effort to go beyond personal visions and differences momentarily, to create a unitary movement that will promote the acceptance of this multifaceted spiritual phenomenon or however you like to call it! For the good of all of us....
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Permalink Reply by Heather V. on
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That is definitely not fair and not right. Satanists have their rightful place in the design.
Torey said:As a Satanist, I have to say that I am disappointed with the intolerance that I have found AMONGST PAGANS towards their own kindred.
I can't even number the amount of times that I have heard WICCANS say things like "evil Satanists" and "we protect Christians against evil Satanists" or "if I met Satan, I'd smite him in the face".
Some Pagans do exactly what they profess to hate Christians doing to them - and I seek to bring all of them down who do it in order to end the hypocrisy and double-standard.
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Permalink Reply by Rowan Canterbury on
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I believe focus on ignorance is focus lost. In the end my friend Paolo, the world has been riddled with ignorance since time began. I don't get to much intolerance. I have to be honest. I have been pagan all my life and I would say I got the most intolerance when I was a teenager. Now at 42 people know and I don't care. I am not pagan because I want to be different. I am pagan because I am pagan. I can't afford to spend time worrying about ignorance, I can only use my time to live a life and be an example to those that don't (and are to afraid) to accept us, that there is more than the little world of their bottle glass vision.
I realized a long time ago that I have limited control over everything other than my own actions. I find that many pagans become pagan because they believe they can learn to manipulate and control the actions of others. I think those are negative motives ( and for the record I am not accusing anyone here of that, it is just a statement) I have had to deal with ignorance my whole life...I am a 5'9" red head with a size 39 DD and...belly dancer...if you break it down ignorance and intolerance can be blatant or subtle. I have been turned down for jobs..not because I was pagan..but because the manager was a female and before she got to know me she decided I was a tramp and going to sleep with her looser husband...
I used to be a process engineer. ...and had to deal with factories full of men...and needless to say because of my appearance every promotion meant I was screwing someone..not that I was working two jobs and going to school and really worked for what I wanted...
Negative energy feeds off other negative energy and in most cases can not survive without a reaction. I refuse to react to intolerance..because frankly I don't give two shits what stupid people thing. I do what I wish to do and have found ways to battle the negativity and teach intolerant people that the mirror can also be turned to them...
Just my two cents...
Thank you for all your wonderful posts...by the way..I do feel you are one of my favorite people on this site...
Rowan
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Rowan,
I COMMEND you for what YOU say. Hat's off to ya....... Took the words right out of my mouth. Lennon once said " If people didn't get it the first time, why go back and prove it again ". Same here. I have met some really kewl people. Not because they are on " my side ", as there are no sides, just simply ( yet so complex for ones not open minded to see past what they are told to think, sheep ) we just are whom we are. To tell others how to think, goes so against the Rede.
Yes, I am Pagan. Have to be if one is a Witch, but a Pagan does not have to be a Witch. I thought very long and very hard ( within, as that's what Druids do ) to see if what I wrote in here was a bad thing. Asked my husband ( teacher and mentor as well as High Priest ) to " let me have it " if I were wrong in my thinking. He said, no I was not wrong., as I follow what Wicca teaches to the best of my ability. Hope these words Harm None, but to be a Pagan is hard in itself, understatement, to be a Witch, even harder. Do as you will and harm none. Tough to follow a lot of times. One, no better than the other either, as I don't want anyone here to think I think of myself as any better. Could NOT be farther than the truth. I go about my business, and attention I get just from saying a few words, is something to see. They don't know what I practice, they are just forced to think a bit differently about things, just by a few simple words. That in itself is something that is priceless. When we start putting the stigmata of what or who we are, when at least I think of it, kinda sounds like all these people here in Palm Beach County,Fl ( at least ) that feel they need to justify their words, actions and deeds due to their faith. Actions speak far more, and for the better good. The Call to the Goddess says that, which is Historic in itself. Though I do not believe men are to be " Altar Candy ". They are priceless and the balance. Selena Fox even agreed with that statement. Glad I know her personally, as this that has been said may have gotten to me. She gave very sound advice to me. Her, I trust 110%. She's seen this page and cannot believe some of it. For a lot of it, she thought was good, but there are signs that there is a kink in the thinking and as you said " manipulation ".
Write me if you wish >>> lunarwhisper@hotmail.com
You're a person that I admire for Courage to speak as you feel it simply is.
Bless Be
lunarwhisper
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