Wicca Wiccans Pagans and Free Souls.. live different.. be Neopagan!
Intolerance against Paganism and in general ...
After watching the negative reaction of somebody to the rising of Paganism with the new cults and religions, like Wicca, Goth and Neopaganism, I want to know your opinion about it. And furthermore to discuss world Intolerance in general also ....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by AJSwicca on
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I am so sorry that happened to you........ignorance is just rampant among the non-pagan community, I have been harassed by the seventh day adventi????whatever, they came to the wrong house on twrong day.. I fear for some of the children of these people........they don't believe in medicating, in any way, their was a little girl that died not too long ago, as her parents would not give consent, seventh day adventists....................Now, they are facing murder charges...................manslaughter.............
Jade said:Tonight i go out to smoke a cigarette and discover that my car has been egged and written on it was the word "Witch"! Gee, i wonder why I was targeted???? I am really disapointed. I moved to a small town six months ago. I have good friends here now but still notice people giving me dirty looks because of my piercings and visable pagan tattoos. But i expected that. not all people are judgemental but some still are and i knew i had to deal with that!! But for somebody to come to my house and egg my car and write witch on it was not something i expected. This has happened to me before- in my old town, but it was my house and it was spray painted. thankfully that didnt happen this time- thank to goddess for small favors, right? I cant really be mad right now because i am too shocked, but im sure i will be pissed tommorrow when i have to clean that off. Luckly the people didn't know what they were doing and used washable markers- another small favor. *sigh* idk- im disapointed in people right now. I feel like i am a nice person, i listen and respect other peoples religion and dont preach my own. i dont know how people can be so mean and judgemental. it is really upsetting. A little part of me died while discovering my car covered in egg goo. The part that had hope for man-kind accepting pagans fully one day. I know this was probably only one or two people who made a bad discision, but i cant help but feel that way. I want to cry- but not for me or my car, but for pagans in general who go through this kind of thing. The fact that this still happens is so...... idk...... disapointing. I know compared to the witch burnings and jew pursecutions this is nothing- but it kills a part of you just the same.
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My advice would be just to show them quietly and quickly how to be leader of ritual.....and how to connect........then be done with it.
Lady Lunar Whisper said:Ignorance feuls fear. They cannot fathom the concept of " Free Thinking " and that scares the heck out of them. I've also seen it in " our community " when some are asked to do a Ritual, they bail. Don't know why. Could be maybe the old way of thinking, but I wish I did know that one. ??? Any advice ?
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Permalink Reply by Lady Lunar Whisper on
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The " Ego " was meant in a fashion that I've seen far too many " possessed " by, as well as Obsess over. Meaning, they thought and believed 110% they wer NEVER to be challenged. In " black & white " those words may have been constrewed as an attack on you ? Not so, as I don't know you. There are MANY here in South Fl. that have made a serious mockery of Wicca. I, at one time got E ~ Mails from this rather large group. That's where my words were aimed at in my comments, as this
" group " made it almost impossible to believe any solitary was serious. Not ANYONE here, as I do not know anyone and that's not now, nor EVER will be my style. They meet and it's all " get away from reality and play dress up ". It even got to the point where I started sending all the CRAP to Circle Sanctuary, as it would be them bringing back the Bad times. Selena Fox got in touch with me herself, which is not heard of much. She knew my concearns and agreed they were not doing the right things so far as the real teaching of Wicca as she read the E ~ Mails personally. All I know is Coven Life, and it can at times be disheartening, but there's also lessons in there as well, and lessons are priceless. It can and has also been A Lot of fun. My thinking is not bad, it is good and saved my life too. When my son was killed, I wanted to be with him. I thought as a Wiccan and Druid Philosophy and changed my mind. The fact is, that men and women think differently and that is GREAT. Thank the " Powers That Be " For chromosomes being one off to derive the difference and hopeful balance. I also thank my Husband for his Love for me and my Best Friend ( who also lost her 17 yr. old daughter almost 3 yrs. ago ) for being there for me, and I, her.Anyone that knows me, knows the pure Hell I've been through from birth until I left my ex
( who is an Oxy Codone prescribed NUT, who threatened me with a .357 Magnum ), a " mother " that said if she could have got away with it, would have used a coat hanger, and the NEVER ending beatings I had to take as a child . When I started with Wicca, I saw A LOT of people that were ALL good to me. I'm NOT saying you are not good, just saying this from the people I met is all. I do take an " inner pride " that I try my best to help people, and annonomously ( unless it's a friend asking for help ). I am a bit hurt that I'm seemingly not wanted here, or did I take that out of context, as I'm not sure ? See, in black and white, nobody can tell what tone things are " said " in and I come off as a Monster. The word Supremicy had me on edge a bit, and maybe I too took that out of context ?
I did think we were here to gain new concepts ? Am I wrong ? We ALL bring different ideas to the table, so I just need to understand why I was so brutally attacked, or that's how it seems ?
Bless Be,
lunarwhisper
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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Lady Lunar,
I'm not angry at you, but I'm surely disturbed and tired with the situation of discrimination against Paganism that is taken ages now!!
Thanks to mentality and perspectives like yours, in my opinion, we will stay forever under the gun of ignorance. Also your replies to my comment are no-sense, showing that you cannot sustain an objective discussion on this "fundamental" issues....
Also I'm really sorry to know about your son and I send you my deepest sincere condolances, but this seems having little to do to whit the matter discussed here, and surely doesn't gives you any special right to say gratuitous sentences in here, even wanted to make me believe that this needs to be taken as a revealed truth....
Lady Lunar Whisper said:WOW, you appear to be VERY angry, so for that I feel bad for you. I have taught as well as learned from others. All you big words, amount to not much. I think I need to keep MY distance from the like of you, Sir. You took EVERYTHING I said and twisted it into what you wish to disect. I have far too much sadness to worry about what you think. Seems like you are looking to be the " leader " and I'm not a " Follower ". My son was killed almost 4 yrs. ago @ the age of 25. So, by your uninformed comments, I lose no sleep. Some people in this mundane life we just do not get along with, so place your " Bully Tactics " somewhere else. Like in the ground. ALL your negaitivity, shows anger issues. We ALL have our own opinions and that is that. Why does it look like your opinion is the be all and end all. This place or so I thought was different. A place where EVERYONE respects ALL opinions. Looks like maybe I was wrong ?? Maybe, just maybe you read what I wrote in the WRONG context ? This place I thought was NOT devised to bash people. Live and learn.
To waste my time, is only feeding your negativity, so Off I go. Don't write back, as I really cannot be bothered with closed minded and negative people. I AM owed an appology for this !!!!
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Lady Lunar,
you talk about personal opinions... but opinions for my goal ( To take Paganism out of fake discrimination and demonization...) doesn't count, just past historical proven facts and evidences from our enlightened ancestors are needed as a pure manna!!
Lady Lunar Whisper said:WOW, you appear to be VERY angry, so for that I feel bad for you. I have taught as well as learned from others. All you big words, amount to not much. I think I need to keep MY distance from the like of you, Sir. You took EVERYTHING I said and twisted it into what you wish to disect. I have far too much sadness to worry about what you think. Seems like you are looking to be the " leader " and I'm not a " Follower ". My son was killed almost 4 yrs. ago @ the age of 25. So, by your uninformed comments, I lose no sleep. Some people in this mundane life we just do not get along with, so place your " Bully Tactics " somewhere else. Like in the ground. ALL your negaitivity, shows anger issues. We ALL have our own opinions and that is that. Why does it look like your opinion is the be all and end all. This place or so I thought was different. A place where EVERYONE respects ALL opinions. Looks like maybe I was wrong ?? Maybe, just maybe you read what I wrote in the WRONG context ? This place I thought was NOT devised to bash people. Live and learn.
To waste my time, is only feeding your negativity, so Off I go. Don't write back, as I really cannot be bothered with closed minded and negative people. I AM owed an appology for this !!!!
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I agree with what you say, no doubt about it. Did you maybe think we just say it differently ? By talking about my son, does lay creedence in the fact that if it were not for my STRONG beliefs I'd have offed myself ? Most people change their religions because they " blame " their God who has " failed them ". As usual, the old " blame game " still alive and doing as well as ignorance and fear of what is not known. It is relavant with my son, as any mother will say that a child is love to beyond the soul level, and when they hurt, we fix it no matter what. We ALL get put through " tests " ( for lack of better verbage here. I guess I consider it a path... " Which one will you choose " kinda thing. See, this goes deeper than what is seen. He chose to deal with life by doing Crack, Meth and anything else he could get his hands on. I had to take the ex to court, as he's got ALL the ashes and though this has been a living Hell as it is, never thought court would be on the agenda list. Fl. told me to go to this particular courtroom, but first mediation. I told the ex ( who took most of the " 101 " classes and knew I can see right through things. Especially with the 3 children. I warned him 7 mos. prior to this horrible day that ( I wish I knew what was really going on ) Josh needed help and FAST. Got laughed at and was told " Hey, he was stubborn, what can I say " ? No remorse ( sp ? ). Just " no soul kind of eyes. This could have been prevented, and went ignored. His conscience, when all is said and done, but my son paid for this type of thinking with his life. High Steaks, the highest. Josh was at one time so anti everything, even ciggaretts. So, this plays into my beliefs to the core of my being. No, I'm better than nobody, but life experience has taught me so much. Because this " fool " is so afraid of my religion, he even brought the word " Witch " into mediation. So, I ask how do we collectivly change or show the non believers ( that are so curious, yet will not admit it ) that we are not to be feared, and maybe they can relearn thought processes they have within, yet are stiffled by their very own religions ?
You're probablly a very nice person, but maybe the way you approach things could use some tweeking. Not telling you how to do anything, just asking you to reflect is all. I feel ( and it is my right to have an opinion too, just like everyone else here does ) that maybe if you asked the " why " instead of just blasting me, nothing would have been taken the wrong way. I even came up with ( in our Coven ) letting people come into our Coven, even if they were not going to be Initiated, just take the " 101 " ( and we do not charge either . I say that, because some do ) just to learn about Wicca. Small steps, as we know not everyone can be reached. Only so much one can do. If they wanted to stay with what they were already, fine. They'd at least know that this is far from what they thought... Some told me I was nuts and wasting my time, maybe so. In my eyey, it was not, as at least it would open their eyes a little bit, and that would be no matter what ( can't unring a bell ). So, I wonder if we can get off the bashing subject and move on to what we're ALL here for ? You misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you.
Bless Be,
lunarwhisper.
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Permalink Reply by Sehkmet kalikalmata on
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Wow, I have no words for their ignorance, A friend of mine, would, in marker beside it, thank, I know now have a great day, blessed be, I would personally add a middle finger with a pentagram ring on it just for the extra, fuck you.
Jade said:Tonight i go out to smoke a cigarette and discover that my car has been egged and written on it was the word "Witch"! Gee, i wonder why I was targeted???? I am really disapointed. I moved to a small town six months ago. I have good friends here now but still notice people giving me dirty looks because of my piercings and visable pagan tattoos. But i expected that. not all people are judgemental but some still are and i knew i had to deal with that!! But for somebody to come to my house and egg my car and write witch on it was not something i expected. This has happened to me before- in my old town, but it was my house and it was spray painted. thankfully that didnt happen this time- thank to goddess for small favors, right? I cant really be mad right now because i am too shocked, but im sure i will be pissed tommorrow when i have to clean that off. Luckly the people didn't know what they were doing and used washable markers- another small favor. *sigh* idk- im disapointed in people right now. I feel like i am a nice person, i listen and respect other peoples religion and dont preach my own. i dont know how people can be so mean and judgemental. it is really upsetting. A little part of me died while discovering my car covered in egg goo. The part that had hope for man-kind accepting pagans fully one day. I know this was probably only one or two people who made a bad discision, but i cant help but feel that way. I want to cry- but not for me or my car, but for pagans in general who go through this kind of thing. The fact that this still happens is so...... idk...... disapointing. I know compared to the witch burnings and jew pursecutions this is nothing- but it kills a part of you just the same.
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I don't think anything will go that far, look like you've swallowed a warrior spirit some where down the line.
Very simply people are informed already about pagan ties, they frankly don't care, pagans are truly are not about the sword and holly war, leave that to the Christians and Jews, the mere power of us is in the pen, converting, those open enough to receive the truth, and have the Christians just be open to accept.
Us burning and hanging, getting fire hosed and bitten by dogs, and assassinated will captivate or motivate the American audience, charmed, The craft, Buffy and piratical magic does a better job at that.
Yeah, were right up there with big foot and aliens, but just like them we exist, but I refused to be found and disected.
We have a section in most library's and books stores, so we're not doing that bad.
Simply some pagan with enough money, should, biuld a pagan holocaust museum, and a church.
Hand out flyers to the church and bingo, we have a new ministery.
Oh, wait I'll do it....
Blessed it be
Paolo R. said:Reminding the concept:
I strongly believe that we need to clean our Pagan distorted image ( thanks to ignorance and politically directed propaganda against Paganism...), in order that we can achieve a new "virginity"!!
How?... simply digging in historical evidences and showing, among other striking and touching issues, the real way that all the religions were made from the old Pagan cults!!
This will give us a legitimate status and a new & fresh credibility, or better a SUPREMACY!!
Obviously a STRONG cohesion between us is needed, and a lot of cross referencing of info is involved and the whole process will probably take years!... but otherwise I don't see other solutions. Even if it seems that I don't care, I sympathize with the folks that got a lot of troubles from intolerance against Paganism, but to reach my goal I need to be straightforward and just pay attention to more historical-philosophical issues rather than everyday injustice.
Also if we pay too much attention to this kind of everyday gratuitous and obtuse ignorance it will take us in a perverted unending blind loop..!
Unfortunately it will be "a long way to Tipperary" but we will be successful!!!
ps. ...don't get me wrong, probably a lot of "blood" will be shed, along with a chorus of shattered barking dogs against the Neopagans, red in the face with rage!!! ...
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My Brother, you have almost become christian in your out look, no religion adds to science, no dogma in world take care of the religious holocaust the Christians has placed upon it.
There is no superiority, in being first, we just are, so what, if the apple is red and another calls it yellow and everyone agrees that its red. so what!
You are just as bad as the politics behind the bible, we are all different in our beliefs as pagans whether the mother is lady chrome, Isis, Gia, SHE IS WHAT SHE IS, MOTHER.
No political tyrant is going to help us find ourselves we'll just be swimming in our egos, drowning in our blasphemy.
All the goddess wants us, is peace and balance, all the father wants for us is the same.
Put along lost savior in the mix, call him Hercules or Heru and were no better then Constantine.
No stronger then evangelicals, appearing 5am in the morning on every channel, spewing inferiority complexes.
Feel secure in knowing you are right, the goddess has blessed with your knowing who you are.
Fight know one in defense of it , or be consumed with hatred of knowing who's to blame.
Paolo R. said:Lady Lunar Whisper,
I'm surprise that you interpret my thoughts here in a moralistic and non-Pagan way!!
Since many of you are probably not familiar with my vision I would like to say that the terms I am using, like in this case "cult", dont have any negative meaning, except that the intentions of non Pagans was to make it negative. We dont have to accept this "fake" detractive connotation. Guess who decided that meaning? Then I dont want to be a victim of this negative propaganda created in bad faith over the ages against Paganism.
I have to say that unfortunately thinking like Lunarwhisper are absolutely not in our best interest, but at the opposite they are ironically magnifying this equivocal interpretation. This needs to be changed through the proofs of evidences, reinstalling the true meaning. Perhaps if we want to cut this vicious loop we need to coin new names to describe old terms...
But the substance remains: we dont need to accept an obtuse and fake dictate from non-Pagan entities!!!!!
When I started Neopagan.com it was clear in my mind what to do in order to clean the deteriorated image of Paganism. In order to do that we need to be cohesive and to share, among our personal differences, a unified code of conduct. Especially we need to avoid what I call "intellectual fearful masturbations" interpretations like in your comments are power trip, ego trip...
The ego is obviously involved in everything in life on this plan of existence: its useless to say, as you did, witches need to teach or to be open to third parties and so on ...!!. Unfortunately the "bad karma" fear is an heritage of bad understood beliefs of Hinduism doctrines...
Furthermore other fake dilemmas like: Paganism needs or doesnt need a Messiah, or new rules...etc... WHO CARES, welcome to all of this if its beneficial!! The issue is: is Paganism sick? Then if there is a medicine that will make him feeling well, just take it!!!
Consequently the major problem is reestablish a liason with our ancient and noble roots of the tradition, which implies a refusal of everything that is not in tune with that. Among other things then, we need to refuse to accept the derrogatory connotation of these terms so that we wont become victims of the negative propaganda. For example, if I do enochian magic working with angelic energies, and I call myself a Magus and somebody starts laughing at this term, assuming I am a charlatan, I dont have to accept his thinking or to care at all. We know that in history there were good men and charlatans in society. We need to be adamant, strong and firm on our position showing that Paganism was the crib of civilisation so that accordingly it is seen and appropriately celebrated. We need always to remind, among others issues, to the new savants that Magic can add to science a touch of bliss and inspiration that it needs to move on to higher achievements.
Returning to Lady Lunar comment in detail:
You need and we need to have peace of mind with this game of the Ego: the Ego is there in us and will stay happily with us. Its alive, human and not good or bad by any means, Amen!
His multi faces are so many, that even when we masquerade ourself with humbleness the ego is at work!! In fact the Ego is related with us and CANNOT be escaped, but needs to be under the control-observation-supervision of our mind. IN fact we can say that the Ego is a part of our mind and body!!
Keeping distance from your analysis Lady Lunar, I suggest instead that we need to take action and to use and "celebrate" our incarnation and the Ego ( that's why we are on this earth..!), but we need to observe the whole mental process, like we are watching a movie, so that we will be involved but at the same time detached to a reasonable degree...
By "power trip", probably you referring to a meaning that is a sub product of a real vertical powerful ascent....
POWER is instead exactly what we need to achieve in this magical vertical path or vertical ascent. But power means a lot of things, so that we need to understand what this power exactly is and the right amount of power we need.
As we know, the whole universe is a source of power, because the Creator, or God the One, is just POWER in action!! Then if your imaginary strega or witch doesn't involve power its not a real strega neither a Pagan Magus, but probably a "chistianized" surrogate which relies on a submissive power!
Instead, the Pagan way means that through your own magical effort and your ego, you connect yourself with the source of power so that you don't rely anymore on external factor or third part entities like Jesus Christ or others....
Then we don't need at all to be ashamed or fearful to reach power, at the opposite this what the superior energies or Gods want and will deliver to us!!
You are talking about teaching, but you can teach if you are a professor at school, not if you are a a witch!! We don't need to teach, but just to direct power at will!
So that its preferable that no witch will teach, but instead experimenting with universal forces, following the ancient trustable traditions!!
Regarding the word Cult I reminding you of the general meaning: from Wikipedia "Cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream..."
So that Paganism did embed an arsenal of beliefs like many small religions that generally were called Cults. If we are, again, scared by this term, this is a consequence of blatant and obtuse negative non-Pagan propaganda.
I feel then that we can happily use this word without fear or negative meanings..!
Regarding supremacy, that only means that from a historical perspective the so called inspired religions are made from the previous ancient cults or religions models!!!
That implies, symbolically and practically, a doctrinal and historical supremacy, whether you like or not this name!!!
Personally I feel that if we will be persistent in this self destructive game among Pagans, we will never be successful and our lives will be always under the threat and at the mercy of our detractors!!!
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Sehkmet kalikalmata,
I use your comment as an example of what is WRONG with some current Pagans thinkers, and surely needs an immediate reply:
You said "All the goddess wants us, is peace and balance, all the father wants for us is the same."...
That's wrong and immature, depicting anthropomorphic Deities. Tradition thinks that Gods are just energies, that can be used or experienced by us. They don't really litterally care for what we do. But it is our duty and interest, during "the process of returning to the source", to celebrate and rejoin with Them during our incarnations in the matter. This doesn't imply AT ALL any kind of status of peace or something else. Especially when we talk about brutal energies as the Gods can be, as perceived by a human body! Surely statuses of ecstasy and inner peace are always welcomed and will improve as we will move on, in a balanced way, towards our final goal!
Furthermore, due to my goal, as many times I've said, I do not care about personal histories or perspectives, like your vision or about your brother, neither somebody else!..
My family lineage is a Pagan noble family from the ancient city of Roma that was among few others, the originator of our Western Civilization. Then yes!! those ancient Pagan ancestors were philosophers but also warriors!... Seems that some of you are re-creating a new wave of Paganism that has little to do with the ancient one... this way you are playing the game of intolerance and we will never see the light of the day that Paganism will rank at the place that it deserves..
Do I have to remind you that Paganism is and was not just about solitary witches or wild spirits, but also about philosophy, metaphisics, arts and so on...!!
Do I have to remind you that not just poor human beings were burned at the stake but also great thinkers and free spirits like Giordano Bruno, among others, were burned alive?!!
Paganism is not just a style or a temporary ecologic game, but a model of life that has serious requirements!!
Well I'm not here spending my money building this community to hear bullshit about brothers, families or something else... I'm a philospher but also a Pagan warrior. If you think that this is not required rethink, and stop blaming me!
Today I'm not using guns but like to use knowledge and passion. In the disaster of modern civilization, among other issues, I see really clearly what incredible amount of misinformation and "ignorance" is at work. Don't get me wrong, this ignorance is at work on both sides, Pagans and non-Pagans. THIS IS THE ROOT OF MISTAKES & EVILNESS! I will repeat that to all of you.
I feel that, totally in disagreement with your perspective, there is an absolute need and necessity for a huge update about the nature of modern Paganism that needs to be re-connected with the original matrix, and not mixed with our personal visions, mainly based on erroneus and gratuitous books. After we reconnect with this matrix, then we can in the respect of the tradition, create our own personal model or path to enter the house of the Gods.
In reading your thoughts I perceive a passive mentality so that, as historically proven, this passive-submissive mentality, plus ignorance, created the fall of Paganism and today is responsible for the actual discrimination against modern Paganism. I personally don't like to stay in the restroom of our society!!
I keep distance also from personal views, of which I'm not interested at all. I'm searching for historical truths that are not just in libraries, but in books that were burnt!
Nothing then for me to be ashamed about by branding a symbolical sword!
I like better this instead of being in a flagarant obtuse repetitive ignorance and apathy, showed shamefully in the face of a Goddess, Sehkmet in your case, that you are dishonoring!!
She waits to come back to the place were she was, not obviously in the sky where she is steady, but in this material world on a public altar. Yes my love, the Gods are watching us not just when we are invoking them around a cauldron, but also in our everyday actions. Especially today in watching us re-establish the broken path with them!!
So get up from your bed of roses, with humbleness and bravery and brand the sword of knowledge and reconnect yourself to the ancient knowledge of our Pagan precedessor that embeded so wonderful spirit and matter in one big hug!
ps. ..it is really funny for me to explain-justify my passionate Pagan status to you, who within your own profile name use the sacred name of Kali, the really well known and feared Goddess of War!! ...
Sehkmet kalikalmata said:My Brother, you have almost become christian in your out look, no religion adds to science, no dogma in world take care of the religious holocaust the Christians has placed upon it.
There is no superiority, in being first, we just are, so what, if the apple is red and another calls it yellow and everyone agrees that its red. so what! You are just as bad as the politics behind the bible, we are all different in our beliefs as pagans whether the mother is lady chrome, Isis, Gia, SHE IS WHAT SHE IS, MOTHER. No political tyrant is going to help us find ourselves we'll just be swimming in our egos, drowning in our blasphemy. All the goddess wants us, is peace and balance, all the father wants for us is the same. Put along lost savior in the mix, call him Hercules or Heru and were no better then Constantine.
No stronger then evangelicals, appearing 5am in the morning on every channel, spewing inferiority complexes.
Feel secure in knowing you are right, the goddess has blessed with your knowing who you are.
Fight know one in defense of it , or be consumed with hatred of knowing who's to blame.
Paolo R. said:Lady Lunar Whisper,
I'm surprise that you interpret my thoughts here in a moralistic and non-Pagan way!! Since many of you are probably not familiar with my vision I would like to say that the terms I am using, like in this case "cult", dont have any negative meaning, except that the intentions of non Pagans was to make it negative. We dont have to accept this "fake" detractive connotation. Guess who decided that meaning? Then I dont want to be a victim of this negative propaganda created in bad faith over the ages against Paganism. I have to say that unfortunately thinking like Lunarwhisper are absolutely not in our best interest, but at the opposite they are ironically magnifying this equivocal interpretation. This needs to be changed through the proofs of evidences, reinstalling the true meaning. Perhaps if we want to cut this vicious loop we need to coin new names to describe old terms...
But the substance remains: we dont need to accept an obtuse and fake dictate from non-Pagan entities!!!!!
When I started Neopagan.com it was clear in my mind what to do in order to clean the deteriorated image of Paganism. In order to do that we need to be cohesive and to share, among our personal differences, a unified code of conduct. Especially we need to avoid what I call "intellectual fearful masturbations" interpretations like in your comments are power trip, ego trip...
The ego is obviously involved in everything in life on this plan of existence: its useless to say, as you did, witches need to teach or to be open to third parties and so on ...!!. Unfortunately the "bad karma" fear is an heritage of bad understood beliefs of Hinduism doctrines...
Furthermore other fake dilemmas like: Paganism needs or doesnt need a Messiah, or new rules...etc... WHO CARES, welcome to all of this if its beneficial!! The issue is: is Paganism sick? Then if there is a medicine that will make him feeling well, just take it!!!
Consequently the major problem is reestablish a liason with our ancient and noble roots of the tradition, which implies a refusal of everything that is not in tune with that. Among other things then, we need to refuse to accept the derrogatory connotation of these terms so that we wont become victims of the negative propaganda. For example, if I do enochian magic working with angelic energies, and I call myself a Magus and somebody starts laughing at this term, assuming I am a charlatan, I dont have to accept his thinking or to care at all. We know that in history there were good men and charlatans in society. We need to be adamant, strong and firm on our position showing that Paganism was the crib of civilisation so that accordingly it is seen and appropriately celebrated. We need always to remind, among others issues, to the new savants that Magic can add to science a touch of bliss and inspiration that it needs to move on to higher achievements.
Returning to Lady Lunar comment in detail:
You need and we need to have peace of mind with this game of the Ego: the Ego is there in us and will stay happily with us. Its alive, human and not good or bad by any means, Amen!
His multi faces are so many, that even when we masquerade ourself with humbleness the ego is at work!! In fact the Ego is related with us and CANNOT be escaped, but needs to be under the control-observation-supervision of our mind. IN fact we can say that the Ego is a part of our mind and body!!
Keeping distance from your analysis Lady Lunar, I suggest instead that we need to take action and to use and "celebrate" our incarnation and the Ego ( that's why we are on this earth..!), but we need to observe the whole mental process, like we are watching a movie, so that we will be involved but at the same time detached to a reasonable degree...
By "power trip", probably you referring to a meaning that is a sub product of a real vertical powerful ascent....
POWER is instead exactly what we need to achieve in this magical vertical path or vertical ascent. But power means a lot of things, so that we need to understand what this power exactly is and the right amount of power we need.
As we know, the whole universe is a source of power, because the Creator, or God the One, is just POWER in action!! Then if your imaginary strega or witch doesn't involve power its not a real strega neither a Pagan Magus, but probably a "chistianized" surrogate which relies on a submissive power!
Instead, the Pagan way means that through your own magical effort and your ego, you connect yourself with the source of power so that you don't rely anymore on external factor or third part entities like Jesus Christ or others....
Then we don't need at all to be ashamed or fearful to reach power, at the opposite this what the superior energies or Gods want and will deliver to us!!
You are talking about teaching, but you can teach if you are a professor at school, not if you are a a witch!! We don't need to teach, but just to direct power at will!
So that its preferable that no witch will teach, but instead experimenting with universal forces, following the ancient trustable traditions!!
Regarding the word Cult I reminding you of the general meaning: from Wikipedia "Cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream..."
So that Paganism did embed an arsenal of beliefs like many small religions that generally were called Cults. If we are, again, scared by this term, this is a consequence of blatant and obtuse negative non-Pagan propaganda.
I feel then that we can happily use this word without fear or negative meanings..!
Regarding supremacy, that only means that from a historical perspective the so called inspired religions are made from the previous ancient cults or religions models!!!
That implies, symbolically and practically, a doctrinal and historical supremacy, whether you like or not this name!!!
Personally I feel that if we will be persistent in this self destructive game among Pagans, we will never be successful and our lives will be always under the threat and at the mercy of our detractors!!!
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You speak as I believe, but that's in a far different perspective than what was. Like I said, we're supposed to be " open minded " even if we don't agree. That is why I unsubscribed from here. This seem the same as other " places ", and I simply don't belong. That's fine and well. When you speak of Power, that too was defined not as to what I meant.
I ONLY want to hear from those I've made friends with. Do NOT tell me to explain myself, as seems some did not get it from the start. I'm sure you and Paolo have better things to do than bust my chops.
So, kindly, back off. Good riddens to me and this site. Thank You
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Lady Lunar,
Being "open minded", as you said, for me doesnt mean, in this case, being supportative of thoughts that are, in my opinion, the roots of our misery!!
Also I didnt forbid or stop anybody to follow their visions and goals...!
Whether I will be successful or not, I like to suggest new guidance in what I believe is the right thing to do at the present moment, after having for a long time studied the reasons of the fall of Paganism during ages: I'm just trying to find an exit from this "cul de sac" that history has reserved for Paganism.... and I swear to the Gods that no "ego trip" is involved in my pursuit!
Lady Lunar Whisper said:You speak as I believe, but that's in a far different perspective than what was. Like I said, we're supposed to be " open minded " even if we don't agree. That is why I unsubscribed from here. This seem the same as other " places ", and I simply don't belong. That's fine and well. When you speak of Power, that too was defined not as to what I meant.
I ONLY want to hear from those I've made friends with. Do NOT tell me to explain myself, as seems some did not get it from the start. I'm sure you and Paolo have better things to do than bust my chops. So, kindly, back off. Good riddens to me and this site. Thank You
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