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Intolerance against Paganism and in general ...
After watching the negative reaction of somebody to the rising of Paganism with the new cults and religions, like Wicca, Goth and Neopaganism, I want to know your opinion about it. And furthermore to discuss world Intolerance in general also ....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by bratchild on
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I cannot understand the concept of protecting christians from "Sananists". While I don't know much about your sprirtual practices, and as such wouldn't dream of commenting on them, it was always my understanding that Satan, as the Christians see him, was a purely Christian Construct. So why would Wiccans need to protect the Christians from him? Can't the Christians protect themselves?
I do understand and share your frustration at the double standards is see in the Pagan community at large. Guess I still don't understand why we all can't play in the sandbox nicely together.
Torey said:As a Satanist, I have to say that I am disappointed with the intolerance that I have found AMONGST PAGANS towards their own kindred.
I can't even number the amount of times that I have heard WICCANS say things like "evil Satanists" and "we protect Christians against evil Satanists" or "if I met Satan, I'd smite him in the face".
Some Pagans do exactly what they profess to hate Christians doing to them - and I seek to bring all of them down who do it in order to end the hypocrisy and double-standard.
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Permalink Reply by Torey on
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Oh yes I do understand what you mean, Paolo - I wasn't directing my comment at you but it was supposed to have quoted HEXtraordinary's statements about black magick.
I am well and happy for those who wish to not observe their Egos, but I wish to be dominated by my Ego lol I have no problem with others not wishing to do this - I have followed paths for twelve years that taught me to suppress the Ego and ascend. I no longer have this goal.
But yes that comment of mine didn't quote HEXtraordinary :/ Sorry about that.
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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Torey,
whether they told you for 12 years, what I mean here is that in reality we don't want and "cannot" dominate or eradicate the Ego, but just observe the Ego in action. So that you are in a way detached from your egoic actions. That's also the way to activate your hidden Divine powers!
So at the end what I mean is an incarnation/Ego celebration maintained with a rigid control of what I call a constant "observation". This is more easy to say rather than to do. It is also in tune with the Traditional requirements for a Magus, regarding his spiritual preparation in order to manipulate the "brutal" matter and the "mental plane". It is definitely a system that let the apprentice/neophyte/adept to enter a superior "mental" plan, no matter what kind of Magic or path you are following.
I understand that this observation method ( to let the Ego freely express and at the same time to "observe" consciously ), at first glance seems like a nonsense and a kind torture, but works!!
Torey said:Oh yes I do understand what you mean, Paolo - I wasn't directing my comment at you but it was supposed to have quoted HEXtraordinary's statements about black magick.
I am well and happy for those who wish to not observe their Egos, but I wish to be dominated by my Ego lol I have no problem with others not wishing to do this - I have followed paths for twelve years that taught me to suppress the Ego and ascend. I no longer have this goal. But yes that comment of mine didn't quote HEXtraordinary :/ Sorry about that.
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Permalink Reply by enchant77 on
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Understandable as most of us do not understand what it means to be a satanist. As a Celt, we are taught not to hate anyone of another faith for the path they chose. But I will admit ignorance here. I was told that satanism believes in harm, harm to people, harm to animals. Now we all harm in some fashion or another, but I have to admit to not feeling very fond of a faith that teaches harm. Is this true, if not, would you mind terribly giving me better information?
Torey said:As a Satanist, I have to say that I am disappointed with the intolerance that I have found AMONGST PAGANS towards their own kindred.
I can't even number the amount of times that I have heard WICCANS say things like "evil Satanists" and "we protect Christians against evil Satanists" or "if I met Satan, I'd smite him in the face".
Some Pagans do exactly what they profess to hate Christians doing to them - and I seek to bring all of them down who do it in order to end the hypocrisy and double-standard.
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Permalink Reply by AJSwicca on
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Harm none do as ye will.......................I don't judge people, especially for their own damn beliefs. Simple, it is your life, so u may live it the way you wish............I sit in no judgement quarters.
Torey said:I just have to ask - why condemn those who happen to practice a faith which is based upon the indulgence of the Ego? Not all practitioners of Left Hand Paths are murderers and criminals. By condemning those paths which DO make use of 'black magick' and 'manipulative magick', you are simply shifting the focus off your own path and setting up those who (let me remind you, PEACEFULLY practice their craft - even if it goes against the ethical convictions of the status quo) practice self-indulgent or godself paths as the fall guy.
In other words, since I practice what you may call Black Magick and I also practice what you may call 'manipulative magick', does that mean that I am deserving of the wrath of the Christians? Is it fair for you to point the finger and say 'go get HIM! He's the devil worshiper! We Wiccans and other Pagans are GOOD!'.
That is no better than what the Christians are doing to you.
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I heard about harm, not to harm and so on...
To better address this "dilemma"I like to come out with a philosophical line, hoping not to bother my fellow Neopagan brothers with this extreme thought:
My belief and goal is not to decide to harm or not to harm anyone, but in recognizing and realizing that my Soul is a part of the One (God), consequently I'm in everything, and everything is in me... so how can I want or need to harm myself?
AJSwicca said:Harm none do as ye will.......................I don't judge people, especially for their own damn beliefs. Simple, it is your life, so u may live it the way you wish............I sit in no judgement quarters.
Torey said:I just have to ask - why condemn those who happen to practice a faith which is based upon the indulgence of the Ego? Not all practitioners of Left Hand Paths are murderers and criminals. By condemning those paths which DO make use of 'black magick' and 'manipulative magick', you are simply shifting the focus off your own path and setting up those who (let me remind you, PEACEFULLY practice their craft - even if it goes against the ethical convictions of the status quo) practice self-indulgent or godself paths as the fall guy.
In other words, since I practice what you may call Black Magick and I also practice what you may call 'manipulative magick', does that mean that I am deserving of the wrath of the Christians? Is it fair for you to point the finger and say 'go get HIM! He's the devil worshiper! We Wiccans and other Pagans are GOOD!'. That is no better than what the Christians are doing to you.
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Permalink Reply by Sehkmet kalikalmata on
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Ignorance is bliss, insecurity is saying there is no faith in your faith but doubt and regret in your steps.
(The reverend, with the greasy brown hair, crest smile, and country ascent says. Those other people don't have what I have don't love like I love, don't have the wholeness and friendship with god like I have a friendship with god.
They will not see the pearly gates of heaven, because there is only one way to heaven and that's through the blood of Jesus... Can I get a an Amen!)
That type of pompous disregard to all and every religion other then that of Christianity, is favorable to so many, this is the ideas that caused the witch burnings, the inquisitions, not to eradicate Jews and Muslims, but slaughter pagans by the millions, so unity will not bring the world peace, so that wars and organizations against the wars, and guns manufacturers, and organizations to stopping the black market sales of weapons, and jails, and organizations against false imprisonment can keep going and going and the everything can keep pushing and pulling till were all dead.
Who the hell wants to be tolerated, we see differences and fear them, we don't see similarities and embrace them.
To tolerate is to turn up you nose at something and secretly despise it, but will allow it in your presents.
To accept and feel whole about and move on is, when humanity can reconcile.
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That is what I do. LOL........best advice. Love and light and dark and bright, AJSwicca
Jim said:My biggest problem with intolerance is deciding when someone simply disagrees and when the line is crossed. We had a very bitter political battle on gay marriage in California and I live in a small, mostly Christian community. While I respect peoples right to believe what they will and to make their voices heard, I still feel ripped apart every time I read the letters to the editor in our local paper which still appear a month latter. Both sides of the issue are so angry. They both accuse each other of intolerance, hatred and ignorance. Are they both right? As a Pagan, I am still in the broom closet, bat cave, or whatever concealing place of safety you know of, mostly because of where I am. I think and feel that we should be able to disagree in a healthy manner, maybe even laugh about our disagreement, and go have lunch.
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Sehkmet kalikalmata said:
Ignorance is bliss, insecurity is saying there is no faith in your faith but doubt and regret in your steps.
(The reverend, with the greasy brown hair, crest smile, and country ascent says. Those other people don't have what I have don't love like I love, don't have the wholeness and friendship with god like I have a friendship with god.
They will not see the pearly gates of heaven, because there is only one way to heaven and that's through the blood of Jesus... Can I get a an Amen!)
That type of pompous disregard to all and every religion other then that of Christianity, is favorable to so many, this is the ideas that caused the witch burnings, the inquisitions, not to eradicate Jews and Muslims, but slaughter pagans by the millions, so unity will not bring the world peace, so that wars and organizations against the wars, and guns manufacturers, and organizations to stopping the black market sales of weapons, and jails, and organizations against false imprisonment can keep going and going and the everything can keep pushing and pulling till were all dead.
Who the hell wants to be tolerated, we see differences and fear them, we don't see similarities and embrace them.
To tolerate is to turn up you nose at something and secretly despise it, but will allow it in your presents.
To accept and feel whole about and move on is, when humanity can reconcile.
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I am fine with it......don't care what anyone thinks, my life is my own, and my chosen path is already charted in the stars......negative people are just afraid that their own religion might come tumbling down if they educate themselves in religion/culture/philosophy. And that is my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Earth's Outcast on
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Hey everyone, as you all know I live in Canada and I live in a town. It's multicultural but there are several Christian churches but not place for Pagans to hang out. My mom says that I am not "mature enough" so she doesn't teach me about paganism a condemns my way of it because she had a hard life being pagan in a christian city. That city is Edmonton. I know why there are no pagan products being sold in stores, but at least they're are a few "occult shops" in my area. I had to learn paganism from the internet and from religious books from the local library or school. Of course here's what bugs me, one of my grade 9 teachers said to my art class, I'm in Grade 10 now, that pagans are not religious, that hurt and I wanted to tell him otherwise, but I was to scared to do so. And when I tell others I'm pagan, thank the Gods that grade 4's are accepting and I have a Friend who accepts me for me. My fellow teens are not so and some insult me for it. By saying my name wrong, using the name I don't like, singing the stupid John Jacob song, etc.
And it hurts even more because my own mother won't accept my multi-god, multi-belief system.
Thanks for accepting me for who I am and not what others thinks of me.
Blessed Be....CD
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Permalink Reply by Jade on
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Tonight i go out to smoke a cigarette and discover that my car has been egged and written on it was the word "Witch"! Gee, i wonder why I was targeted???? I am really disapointed. I moved to a small town six months ago. I have good friends here now but still notice people giving me dirty looks because of my piercings and visable pagan tattoos. But i expected that. not all people are judgemental but some still are and i knew i had to deal with that!! But for somebody to come to my house and egg my car and write witch on it was not something i expected. This has happened to me before- in my old town, but it was my house and it was spray painted. thankfully that didnt happen this time- thank to goddess for small favors, right? I cant really be mad right now because i am too shocked, but im sure i will be pissed tommorrow when i have to clean that off. Luckly the people didn't know what they were doing and used washable markers- another small favor. *sigh* idk- im disapointed in people right now. I feel like i am a nice person, i listen and respect other peoples religion and dont preach my own. i dont know how people can be so mean and judgemental. it is really upsetting. A little part of me died while discovering my car covered in egg goo. The part that had hope for man-kind accepting pagans fully one day. I know this was probably only one or two people who made a bad discision, but i cant help but feel that way. I want to cry- but not for me or my car, but for pagans in general who go through this kind of thing. The fact that this still happens is so...... idk...... disapointing. I know compared to the witch burnings and jew pursecutions this is nothing- but it kills a part of you just the same.
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