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Intolerance against Paganism and in general ...
After watching the negative reaction of somebody to the rising of Paganism with the new cults and religions, like Wicca, Goth and Neopaganism, I want to know your opinion about it. And furthermore to discuss world Intolerance in general also ....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Adria on
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Jade thank you for your comments. I to feel like i am faking it. I let some of my beliefs known to people but usually they just think i am a free spirit and don't take me seriously. I am forced to participate in their prayers even though i have told them (family) that i am not comfortable with it. They are constantly telling me that i need to go to church and accept Jesus. They don't care that i am happy. That paganism fulfills me and gives me joy just like christianity gives them what they need. I wish that i could have someone to talk to about my beliefs without fear maybe one day.
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Permalink Reply by Jade on
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i have been judged by alot of wiccans. they think that just because i have not been in a coven that i shouldnt have a pentacle tattoo'd on me. they dont think i am a 'true' wiccan. i believe that we should respect everybody no matter where they are on there path and what there path should be.
Torey said:As a Satanist, I have to say that I am disappointed with the intolerance that I have found AMONGST PAGANS towards their own kindred.
I can't even number the amount of times that I have heard WICCANS say things like "evil Satanists" and "we protect Christians against evil Satanists" or "if I met Satan, I'd smite him in the face".
Some Pagans do exactly what they profess to hate Christians doing to them - and I seek to bring all of them down who do it in order to end the hypocrisy and double-standard.
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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The story of this old symbol its very long, but in order to put it in a historical timeline, from what we know and I know, the first historical proven accounts of a Pentagram ( the pentacle having a five-pointed star inscribed on it ) belong to the Pythagorean mystics who worshipped the pentacle or pentagram. In fact the word pentagram comes from the Greek: "pente" meaning 5 (as in Pentagon). However, before Pythagoras, it seems that the Pentagram apparently originated as the symbol of a Goddess Kore, which is symbolized by the pentagram, and was worshiped within the Coptic Gnostic Christian religion in Alexandria, Egypt, during the 4th century CE. A festival called Koreion was held yearly on January 6. This was adopted by the Christian church as Feast of Epiphany and still celebrated as Jesus' birthday in Armenian churches and in orthodox churches in Greece. During Christianity: The five points of the pentagram have been interpreted as representing the five wounds of Christ. The Roman Emperor Constantine used the pentagram in his seal and amulet. It has been referred to as the Star of Bethlehem It was used to symbolize the star which allegedly led three Zoroastrian astrologers to the baby Jesus; it was called the Three Kings' star. The English warrior Sir Gawain, a nephew of King Arthur, adopted the pentagram as his personal symbol and placed it on his shield. It has been widely used by past Christians as a protective amulet. During persecutions when the Christian church burned alive thousands of innocent people, the meaning of the pentagram changed. It began, from a church perspective, to symbolize a goat's head or the devil in the form of Baphomet. "The folk-symbol of security - for the first time in history - was equated with evil and was called the Witch's Foot." So that SEEMS EVIDENT that the Roman church used these symbols not only to demonize Paganism, but also to ERASE, AMONG OTHERS, EVIDENCE OF THE REAL ROOTS OF CHRISTIANITY!!!! WHY? The struggle to retain power and to find an easy system to control people by the Church is evident, Pagans or not!! Making them ignorant and submiss to their power and needs. Using a deviant image of Christ and Christianism!! This way they had really an easy control over people, telling also fairy tales about God and Christ and how to achieve an easy"paradise" through their services. It is evident WHY they ( Roman Church or Vatican ) manipulated historical facts and evidence to achieve this goal!........ elementary Watson !!!
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To Jade, Torey and ALL Pagan folks and Non, here and around, hoping to be heard:
Since everything we believe started from a common point in our past there is a need to support each other and to accept the differences among us!!
It is not so important to claim superiority rather than to restore the right flow-chain of historical events so nobody can say bullshit anymore... consequently YES!! working against IGNORANCE IN ACTION !!.....
At this regard, as an example of Ignorance - Intolerance, we still wait for the Roman Church ( after Paul VI did few years ago for the Galileo Galilei persecution by the Roman Inquisition... ha ha ha! .. after centuries just few years ago ... UNBELIEVABLE !!! ), to provide a repentance for the brutal assasination of Giordano Bruno. ( Bruno was burned alive at the stake in 1600 in Rome ).
Or do we need to believe in 2008, as the "enlightened" blind Muslim "scientist astronomer" says ( I will post this video in the community related section ) that the Earth is flat and doesn't move around the sun?... All because it is written in the Koran !!!!
How long do we need to wait to hear something that can sound acceptable to a civilized man of 2008 from today's Islamic spiritual leaders?!!!!!
HOW MANY OTHER GIORDANO BRUNOS DO THEY NEED TO BURN??
PRAYER: PLEASE GOD & GODS, LEAVE US FREE FROM IGNORANCE !!!!!!!!!
Then let's try to be tolerant among us and to remove first our own ignorance ...
I INVITE YOU TO DIG with me the PAST HISTORY .......
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Permalink Reply by Sakura on
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I have experienced a lot of negative reactions from people who I thought were friends. I accept their beliefs with an open heart, and an open mind. However, when I opened up about my being a pagan (wicca), they laughed at me and one of them said that I was a "Satanist" and I was doing the "Devil's Work." It hurts to hear that they can't even be open minded and accept that I am on a different path in life. I fear of opening up to my family, they're all Christian and firm in that, but they have disapproving views of anything Goth or "non- Christian-like". We as people have come a bit far, in tolerance, well, some people, but why is it so hard to accept Paganism?
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Donna, We know first that nothing new is under the sun but, your short sentence put me in a kind of wondering: Even if those facts are not new for some, a lot of people ignore many facts that I believe are of fundamental importance. I still repeat that we need to clarify what we really are and how the world needs to see us as Neopagans, in order hopefully not to be misunderstood like in a perverted loop! I believe a fatal mistake is taking a kind of superficial approach to this problem or to just consider it as superfluous. As NeoPagans we are fragmented into a miriad of cults, givin a headeache from a non Pagan perspective view. Definitively we need a common denominator, that in the respect of our differences can show to the world our "ancient" and profound origins and give us full recognition and respect!! This common denominator is hidden in the past history! ... Lets bring him up! I hope that you understand my perspective and where I'm heading...
Donna said:
The politics of fear and hate are nothing new.
Paolo R. said:
The story of this old symbol its very long, but in order to put it in a historical timeline, from what we know and I know, the first historical proven accounts of a Pentagram ( the pentacle having a five-pointed star inscribed on it ) belong to the Pythagorean mystics who worshipped the pentacle or pentagram. In fact the word pentagram comes from the Greek: "pente" meaning 5 (as in Pentagon). However, before Pythagoras, it seems that the Pentagram apparently originated as the symbol of a Goddess Kore, which is symbolized by the pentagram, and was worshiped within the Coptic Gnostic Christian religion in Alexandria, Egypt, during the 4th century CE. A festival called Koreion was held yearly on January 6. This was adopted by the Christian church as Feast of Epiphany and still celebrated as Jesus' birthday in Armenian churches and in orthodox churches in Greece. During Christianity: The five points of the pentagram have been interpreted as representing the five wounds of Christ. The Roman Emperor Constantine used the pentagram in his seal and amulet. It has been referred to as the Star of Bethlehem It was used to symbolize the star which allegedly led three Zoroastrian astrologers to the baby Jesus; it was called the Three Kings' star. The English warrior Sir Gawain, a nephew of King Arthur, adopted the pentagram as his personal symbol and placed it on his shield. It has been widely used by past Christians as a protective amulet. During persecutions when the Christian church burned alive thousands of innocent people, the meaning of the pentagram changed. It began, from a church perspective, to symbolize a goat's head or the devil in the form of Baphomet. "The folk-symbol of security - for the first time in history - was equated with evil and was called the Witch's Foot." So that SEEMS EVIDENT that the Roman church used these symbols not only to demonize Paganism, but also to ERASE, AMONG OTHERS, EVIDENCE OF THE REAL ROOTS OF CHRISTIANITY!!!! WHY? The struggle to retain power and to find an easy system to control people by the Church is evident, Pagans or not!! Making them ignorant and submiss to their power and needs. Using a deviant image of Christ and Christianism!! This way they had really an easy control over people, telling also fairy tales about God and Christ and how to achieve an easy"paradise" through their services. It is evident WHY they ( Roman Church or Vatican ) manipulated historical facts and evidence to achieve this goal!........ elementary Watson !!!
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i agree with donna, paolo! this site is amazing! it is full of mostly accepting people who are willing to learn and listen to each other. I think the reason pagans dont stand up together to make a differenceis because we are SO divided. 'im this religion, im that. im different from you, im better than you...' and so on. if this website shows anything its that we are all alike. we have all gone through intolerance, and we can stand up together against it!
in love and light blessed be!
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Permalink Reply by LadyDragoness65 on
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hi everyonme i'm new to this site however when i read this post by Donna i was sadened . I beleive we as humans are all one .when the rest of humanity catches up to this it will be wonderful. i pray to The Powers That Be. ;that all of us in all countries know we as humans are all one ....so mote it be ..blessed be.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Torey said:As a Satanist, I have to say that I am disappointed with the intolerance that I have found AMONGST PAGANS towards their own kindred.
I can't even number the amount of times that I have heard WICCANS say things like "evil Satanists" and "we protect Christians against evil Satanists" or "if I met Satan, I'd smite him in the face".
Some Pagans do exactly what they profess to hate Christians doing to them - and I seek to bring all of them down who do it in order to end the hypocrisy and double-standard.
Well, even as a Satanist, you at least have a place. As a High Magician, who studies the Kabballah, mostly, I am a practitioner of magick, and this makes me too Pagan for the Christians, they don't get it, which is fine, I expected that. I had a very supportive Order for a while, and then I moved, and what I didn't expect is for the Pagan community where I live to treat me like a pariah, because I was too Christian. I was actually told, and I quote "You don't belong here, this place is for real Pagans, You're too Christian". The Pagan can be just as intolerant as the Christian.
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Permalink Reply by Morgan on
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Who in their right mind calls themselves Wiccan or Pagan and believes in the christian god or satan?
Torey said:As a Satanist, I have to say that I am disappointed with the intolerance that I have found AMONGST PAGANS towards their own kindred.
I can't even number the amount of times that I have heard WICCANS say things like "evil Satanists" and "we protect Christians against evil Satanists" or "if I met Satan, I'd smite him in the face".
Some Pagans do exactly what they profess to hate Christians doing to them - and I seek to bring all of them down who do it in order to end the hypocrisy and double-standard.
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To all folks,
As an example in the case of Torey: I don't know how you define your being a Satanist...or which kind of Satanism you practice or follow ( LaVeyan, Crowleyan, Luciferian or ... )....
Personally, from a metaphysical perspective filtered through human nature, I believe in a God ( The One ) that embeds all the opposites potentiality ( like light and darkness or good and bad .. ). Consequently, as an example, it doesn't make sense to detach good from evil or to differentiate the male or female part of this God.
Inside my God, fire-light and darkness are melted together, in an infinite loop.
My view then implies a God that can totally embed striking opposites...
How mortals define and perceive this God is completely another chapter.... that's why it is also important to learn to be tolerant with people that think different from us.
This God, if considered in His full potentiality as One, can be really controversial and multifaceted and can also be seen as a God without any face or precise connotation, a God that can be or not be real, which will probably make an Atheist really excited!!
MORAL: NOBODY CAN SAY TO HAVE THE MONOPOLY OF TRUTH!!
CONSEQUENTLY: LETS BE TOLERANT!!
ps. ...if some of the Christians, Pagans, Jews or anybody else shows ignorance or intolerance towards us, we just don't do it anymore towards him !! ... That's cool!!!
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Tolerance doesn't forbid you to defend yourself from somebody attacking you .... and surely we are not tied to tolerate ignorance!
I just believe that it's better to ignore, sometimes, ignorant people...
Definitively if are a warrior in a war you cannot be tolerant, cause your duty is another one!!
Tedd savage said:Well large subjects need a little time to think about. Now being a US Army Vet, i do have a few issues with the religious.
It does strike me that now Pagan vets may have their chosen star on their tomb, and more than that they may worship
when they wish to, the problem is not intolerance. Yes we wish to tolerate those who live far off, if they wear diapers
on their heads and beat each other up until they are quite dead. The point is could they please do that on their own shores and leave us out of it or instead bomb us till we have to do something about it. Do you wonder if i wish them all dead.
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