Wicca Wiccans Pagans and Free Souls.. live different.. be Neopagan!
With the danger of a personal freedom banned in the future, what can a smart Neopagan do NOW?...
Following my examination of modern Islam and of the impact of so called revealed religions on our everyday life, I like to see what's gonna happen possibly and most likely next. I will like to know your perspective and I will tell you mine. Obviously I see in danger our Paganic freedom in a world largely dominated by Christians and Muslims. Besides ideological extremist thinkers like Al Qaeda or the Christians Opus Dei, the vast majority of the accolades are just following the dictates of their leaders. Then we need to prepare ourselves to fight for our Pagan Credo right of expression, before they will control our freedom, closing us in a cul de sac, like in a virtual prison and in a worst but possible scenario suppressing with violence our Credo and freedom.
Among many examples of today's repression of thought, I like to point out a fancy example, but meaningful, regarding the famous Portoguese soccer coach Jose Mourinho, actual coach of Inter Fc. Milan soccer club. Just today Mourinho was criticized by an Italian Muslim leader and also threatened with death by various Islamic groups, cause he had remarked that one of his players, the Muslim soccer player Mountari, was following too much strictly the rules of Islamic Ramadam, with the result of becoming too weak to play soccer decently.
Everybody can see that the coach was obviously concerned about the team and not surely interested or wanting to offend the Islamic Ramadam ( Muslims around the world are fasting during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, during which faithful followers abstain from eating or drinking during daylight hours... ). So that we can see again the well known Islamic fanaticism and intolerance at work here!...then its easy to see what is gonna happen next, when the Islamic world, in the years to come, at today's expansion rate, will dominate the masses....WARNING..red flag! Pagans!
http://www.anorak.co.uk/sports/220987.html
http://siasaduni.blogspot.com/2009/08/muslim-leader-hits-out-at-mou...
Among many examples of today's repression of thought, I like to point out a fancy example, but meaningful, regarding the famous Portoguese soccer coach Jose Mourinho, actual coach of Inter Fc. Milan soccer club. Just today Mourinho was criticized by an Italian Muslim leader and also threatened with death by various Islamic groups, cause he had remarked that one of his players, the Muslim soccer player Mountari, was following too much strictly the rules of Islamic Ramadam, with the result of becoming too weak to play soccer decently.
Everybody can see that the coach was obviously concerned about the team and not surely interested or wanting to offend the Islamic Ramadam ( Muslims around the world are fasting during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, during which faithful followers abstain from eating or drinking during daylight hours... ). So that we can see again the well known Islamic fanaticism and intolerance at work here!...then its easy to see what is gonna happen next, when the Islamic world, in the years to come, at today's expansion rate, will dominate the masses....WARNING..red flag! Pagans!
http://www.anorak.co.uk/sports/220987.html
http://siasaduni.blogspot.com/2009/08/muslim-leader-hits-out-at-mou...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by faith on
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btw my little experience was 10 years
yea i was never in a war zone
but then again i was never in a war zone!
hence there are lots of peaceful places with no extremists
bahrain, qatar, iran, jordan, uae, oman, saudi, egypt, pakistan, turkey, quwait, etc etc
i never heard once of a single person who got sentenced to death (where i was)
they have jails, they have concrete and beds and phones
now have you heard of the new celebrity hot spot
because thats in the middle east
some of the number one airlines r middle eastern- and the ratings are done y the passengers
best hotels are middle eastern
and they have tons of private schools- excluding the poor countries (bad parts of africa and iraq)
these schools have teachers and text books from all around the world
and they do have glam magazines in the middle east- with gorgeous arab women
and like a lot of young girls going through puberty, i did wear revealing clothes and never walked behind a man
if you didnt get the area that i lived- its dubai, but i have been to oman, jordan, saudi, and egypt. 60 % of the population is from another country- every country! (of course i can not really speak about other muslim countries because i dont know what happens behind closed doors- but then thats not even an issue).
thats the good areas .......
the poor countries- mostly africa are in bad shape
but those are completely different territories
that movie is terrible
if you can think of something to cure the chaos i will help
but its been 2000 + years
the only thing thats helped is the u.n and government and they themselves- all of which are happening and things r getting better
muslims do not condone extremist behavior !
what happened in sweden does not happen very often
it can happened because of old arab laws (not muslim) (and there's different ones)
(which are in the process of changing but is very hard because they are tradition and wars will happen)
they are there but in some countries rarely used (for the most part european laws and more modern laws are used unless specified otherwise- in the more modern civilizations)
in this case it was the family
and as such they were allowed - by shria law
it is the family that were wrong (which was because of culture (not religion) and there are different arab cultures- even languages. and that doesn't mean everyone or anyone else in their group would do that).
if there were so many more cases like this- you would know
i also believe in standing up for paganism
esp. against the catholics as they have such backwards views on us (if something happens- ill be there.but they're fading away anyway)
but what do muslims have to do with us?
i believe they will treat us the same as other people
and extremists will treat us as one of there own- which means EVERYone who isn't them
if something happens we can rise up to the highest powers
because the world is on our side
if you're just letting people know that extremists are terrible
thats totally cool!
but..."So that at the end these people can be seen not just as a friends of criminals but also as an enemy of the Pagan/ Western civilization and of our precious and fragile freedom!"...
*********************if you want to fix whats wrong, im with you, if you want to stand up for paganism- im with you, if you want a pagan group that fights stereotypes- i am no longer pagan. that is how wars are started
(as a mature adult you should find no reason in two younglings participating in this conversation, even if they do not agree.
and anything you would like to say in the future is fine by me, im a big girl and will try to stay as nice as possible ;) )
muslims in general are just people to me (of course with cultural traits, but as an expat i find the same with every society)
as a culture- of course i do feel sorry - the ignorance amongst the poor is extreme
but i think it harsh to fight all the people of this religion because of historical, psychological and anthropological stupidness of a small percentage
muslims- some have tolerance, others do not- just like all people. if others do not follow they dont much care, but they are prideful and want to do the best they can in their beliefs. some groups allow more things then others, but it is changing so more people make the decisions themselves. however, there are those small groups that are rebelling and causing mass destruction amongst people. this is in the v. poor sectors with people who still have nothing but beliefs. some of them are around else where but again- EXTREMISTS. oh and groups- that includes socially- not just islam- laws and religion are 2 different things for them!FACT
these groups do need to be more open minded but so do MOST people
change does not happen over night
it takes decades, centuries, millennia,
they are people
the terrorists are crazy and deserve to be punished
but they are secular groups
and this is A LOT of people we are talking about
btw i think the actual info on this page is a much better view and interesting :)
they have different cultures, different groups, different laws, different languages, different countries= different lifestyle and beliefs
so please be kinder
and speak with facts
i totally agree pagans should speak out
but because i believe it is freeing
not because:
"Then we need to prepare ourselves to fight for our Pagan Credo right of expression, before they will control our freedom, closing us in a cul de sac, like in a virtual prison and in a worst but possible scenario suppressing with violence our Credo and freedom."
they dont have that power
and most do not agree with fighting
and their religion does not agree either
many religions have the "end of days" thing
and the qaran actually says that muslims will not win a fight unless they become democratic
which to some might translate to one thought
so because of power, and not liking the west (therefore democracy), and the can not agree
they fight eachother (and many countries have stopped- therefore some muslim cultures have stopped too)
if your scared of the masses
again, the people converting are more open minded
and the actual religion will not brainwash
btw this cr** happens in many many cultures around the world
china has almost 20000 capital deaths per year
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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I saw a lot of confusion and inaccuracies ( to say the least.. ) in your replies, Hannah and Faith.
Hannah I'm surely not interested in your personal historical ancestry records, which by the way are pointing in a way or another to Islamic roots indoctrination, so that you showed to me not to be a trustable objective person.
Faith you mention Muslim Nations that are free from this contorted Islamic ideological disease, like Egypt, that instead is one of the most dangerous ideologically intolerant Islamic countries.
In fact Al Qaeda number two the doctor Ayman Al-Zawahiri is from Egypt. To support the easy equation that Nationalist spiritual fanaticism-extremism creates intolerance and terrorists, in this case the fanatical Islam of Egypt, I paste below an excerpt from Wikipedia :
..." According to Wright, "[t]he name al-Qaeda was not used," in public pronouncements like the 1998 fatwa to kill Americans and their allies because "its existence was still a closely held secret."[38] Wright writes that Al-Qaeda was formed at an August 11, 1988 meeting of "with several senior leaders" of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, (Sayyed Imam Al-Sharif, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, and others) "...
Another link on Egypt Terrorism : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Islamic_Jihad
As I said terrorism is the final product of a diffuse intolerance among the Middle East- Arabic nations masses, so that is the final result of a philosophy of violence and fanatical intolerance.
Now I swear that I won't reply to any further gratuitous personal comment on this issue. Especially the ones that will show a blatant ignorance on facts and evidences, which are not just mental products of my personal vision, but real facts that we need to face.
I will reply to those blind thinkers with INLYT ( ITS NOT LIKE YOU THINK ).
Finally, to completely clarify my personal position, I think that whether all the masses, big part or a minor part, are contaminated, the whole Islamic problem of a new strongly forthcoming intolerant religion is already a big challenge for the world that needs to be address not with armies but first with the use of the diplomacy and an overall revision of Islam made by spiritualists-philosophers-historians-wise politicians ( if they are around!...)- religious leaders. So that they can rebuild a new Islam in a dedicated planetary congress. A new Islam that will follow the principle of love and tolerance of ancient Sufism that IS the abandoned and now forgotten matrix of this new "heretic" Islam. This will re-integrate Islam as a trustable religion that had his foundational pillars in the ancient pagan tradition!
I will like to look and explore forward in this direction ( the revision of Islam, spiritual and practical and the Pagan involvement in the process.. ), as this was my initial intention with this topic. I invite then all of you interested to reply on this. Certainly not to talk about evidences, nor trying to camouflage them and denying the inconvenient truth.
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I like to add that my solid position about the intolerant religions has nothing to due with my likeness of their Prophets and original Credo. In fact, as I said in other several postings, I strongly believe that the messages of those Messiahs was and still misinterpreted and ( intentionally or not ) manipulated. So that at the end DO NOT represent anymore the genuine initial message and vision of Them.
From that perspective, we cannot consider modern Islam or Christianism as the trustable natural evolution of the ancient original religions, but just as completely new religions. So that I do not feel that a sincere follower of Jesus, Ibn Arabi or Mohammed teachings can have a place in this new Islam or Christianism.
And yes Hannah, in my room library I have an exemplar of the Koran, which I know for the most, surely not a memory....
Consequently, in being also a nostalgic enthusiast of ancient Sufism ( Ibn Arabi ) which was the well known original matrix of Islam, I'm surely cannot be considered at all as an enemy of true Islam, rather that an opponent of this new gratuitously manipulated Islam, that little has to share not just with the original Islam but with the path of this modern and civilized free society!
I strongly believe to be in our best interest and a duty of a good Pagan to help the disoriented Muslim masses, mislead by years of fake propaganda from their blind Leaders, to regain freedom and to re-connect with their forgotten original roots!
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Guess what Pagan brothers and sisters?... I got just now ANOTHER usual episode from modern Islam culture, I cut and paste below, a man that had his nose and ears mutilated! ... just a normal farmer that wanted to excercise with voting HIS RIGHT TO FREEDOM!: Exclusive
Mutilated – for voting in defiance of the Taliban Lal Mohammed paid the price for wanting to have his say on the future of Afghanistan By Kim Sengupta in Kabul Monday, 31 August 2009SHARE PRINTEMAILTEXT SIZE NORMALLARGEEXTRA LARGE Lal Mohammed was viciously attacked on voting day ENLARGE Lal Mohammed was determined to exercise his right to have a say in his country's future and vote in the election. It was a decision for which he paid a horrific price. On his way to the polling station he was held by Taliban fighters, beaten brutally, and then had his nose and ears slashed off. What happened to the 40-year-old farmer is the savage and hidden side of the election in a country experiencing a bloody war. This chilling account is the first from a victim of retribution taken by insurgents on someone who had defied their order to boycott the polls. And it helps to explain why so many people throughout the country were simply too afraid to vote. Related articles Karzai ahead, but fraud claims persist The Independent listened to Mr Mohammed's terrifying tale in a house where he has taken refuge and is being guarded by friends. To add to the misery he has suffered, he has not received any serious medical treatment for three days because one of the main hospitals in the Afghan capital – where he had arrived after an arduous three-day journey – declared it had no room to keep him due to chronic overcrowding. Eminent Afghan and international figures had encouraged citizens to defy the Taliban and vote in the elections. Yet, as a casualty in the process, Mr Mohammed and his friends say he has received no official support.".... CONSIDERATION: this other episode shows how few people rebel to the control of the intolerant extremists or fighters. Shows how the authorities of Afghanistan are involved. Shows how the submissive behavior of the majority of Afghan Islamic population ( in this case ) seems to participate to this intolerant violent behavior!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Andonis Spartan on
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These two women will be put to death for changing their religion.Please send your protest e-mail to Iranian embasy.Scroll down for the English text http://agazilos.org/2009/09/02/be-a-muslim-again-or-die/
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Hannah,
for your info I don't use as you said "generalization", but logical consequential thought. Plus I got in heritage a well proved capacity of intuition and sometimes I see things like a good clairvoyant can...
I do not care about your or my family as I'm untouched by that or by other mediocre sentiments.
Dear sister I acknowledge your frustration in front of the evidences, to defend the non defendable, to put borders where there are not borders and you're desperately trying to color me as an intolerant...in this particular scenario your replies are laughable, showing your young naive age.
For the future, you will hear more from me and the Neopagan movement, so that you need to better prepare yourself if you like to help the cause of freedom.
Lastly the process of revising not just Islam but all the other "revealed religions" is in the hands of the Gods, I'm just a mortal messenger of them, a channel to spread in this world the power of the higher-superior energies. If I will fail, another will come, to perfect the evolution of this planet.
So that if a failure will come, it will be just momentary...
Honestly I'm glad that you are out of here....
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Ladies check out this link.Things are changing.I thought Malasia was a tolerant country.Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, a 32-year-old nurse who confessed to violating Islamic laws by drinking beer in a hotel lobby, was picked up by prison authorities The authorities said Ms. Kartika’s punishment — which would be the first whipping for a woman under the country’s Islamic laws — would be carried out in September, after the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan was over. http://propagandapress.org/2009/08/24/kartika-sari-dewi-shukarno-wi...
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Same case from the World Press: http://en.wordpress.com/tag/kartika-sari-dewi-sukarno/
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A very interesting site : http://missioneuropakmartell.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/islamic-terro...
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Thanks Adonis for your documents!
Regarding some folks of this community, it seems to me even ridiculous that people that has or needs to have knowledge of what is really the Islamic intolerance and fanaticism is deny all of that!... it is also a well known factor the blind acceptance of Muslim people of these fanatical concept and the use of violence in everyday life by them.
Once again, do I need to clarify that this intolerance is shared by the majority of Muslims?... how can be possible the contrary if the new Islam its in fact mainly based on fanaticism, intolerance and brutal suppression of "rival" faiths and religions?
I also have to add that Judaism and Christianism shares also fanaticism and intolerance, but to a much much much lower ratio than modern Islam, a much lower level of interference that at least permits to other faiths the freedom to express their credo without being suppress!
We need to say that Christianism made some progress from the times when the witches were burned alive!!
As I said I don't like in this community, nor in my life to sound as a politically correct thinker, or to be fake playn' the usual "yes man".
People can reject my vision or sympathize with me, but they can be sure that my thoughts and directions are always genuine and sincere.
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Dear faith.I don’t know where you live or what news you hear. In the countries you mention public executions are almost an every day phenomena by the clergy or fanatic mob.Turkey which supposed to be a secular country in February 2006 an Italian Catholic priest was killed in the Black Sea coastal town of Trabzon, and Armenian Christian editor Hrant Dink was shot in front of the weekly Agos three months before three Christians – two Turks and a German – were killed in Malatya in April 2007.The islamic intolerance is spreading to Nigeria,Malasia and other countries as well. Islam=theocracy.Real democracy is to be found in the traditional Paganism and Animism
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