Wicca Wiccans Pagans and Free Souls.. live different.. be Neopagan!
The new Paganism of the 2000 years and beyond...( Suggested to a better comprehension of your Founder thoughts... before to attack him... if you ever care! )
Regarding my vision, I like to say that I'm ideally embracing and trying to reactivate the ancient Roman Paganism dream, which was the liberal profession of exercising a cult among differentiations.
Which means just FREEDOM of choice!! A forgotten word for many of the fundamentalist religions of today!
By Roman Paganism I mean including all the cults that were spread out through the immense ancient Roman Empire, including all the Greeks, Egyptians, Celts, Babylonians and etc.
As we know all the major cults of antiquity were ideally represented in the Roman Pantheon.
Furthermore Roman Magic was the original matrix of Modern Wicca as for Leland and Gardner visions.
One of the point more debated about my "vision" of modern Paganism is the general unwelcome concept by a lot of modern Pagans about the needs for a Pagan guidance. A guidance in the hands of a person, as a Pontifex Maximus ( Leader or Messiah, or a Priestess if you like... )...
I can superficially sympathize with that skepticism, even agree partially that a needs of a kind of a Pagan Mondial Leader can be a thing not in tune with the essence of Paganism... but I can argue that one of the weakest point of Paganism was about his fragmentation in many differentiate cults! After all I sincerely believe instead that an expert and wise ( hopefully ) guidance is absolutely needed, with a legitimate structure on the back that will establish modern Paganism as a real legitimate public entity with a tangible role in our society.
In becoming a unified entity, among obvious differentiations within the different cults, our voice through this new Pagan committee can be heard finally by all, getting surely a much more strong impact on the media and masses.
This committee will be the one in charge of electing a Leader ( similar to a Democratic style, this leader can be elected through voting, for a fixed amount of years each time, in perpetual change ), that with the help of a kind of Pagan Senate ( do you remember Rome?... ), can direct the all Neopagan modern movement!...
This implies evidently a strong effort for the Pagans to become, I will say FINALLY after centuries of solitary cults attempts, an ensemble that can trespass personal goals and interests for the good of the entire Pagan community...
Paganism strongly needs to erase the errors of our ancestors that were underestimating the value of unity, to become finally a powerful center instead to be fragmented into millions of little spread out cults...
Regarding my personal call to ask for a clarification from the Major Religions about their real goals and nature, I like to add that nothing is more far from the truth of my real intentions to be considered as an antagonist or to worst an enemy of millions of non-Pagan people...
I respect Islam, Christianism, Judaism and any other religion of the Planet.
What I don't accept is the fundamentalism embedded in them. If Islam will remove his intolerance and fundamentalism, I will be the first one to enter, if they let me, the mosque to pray with them.
So needs to be really clear that I'm not in any way against people that profess a different Credo from mine. In fact, in being a proud son of the libertine ancient Rome, I totally believe that people need to be free to choose and practice their own religion or cult.
But I know also that Religions are mainly just a way or path to lead us to a spiritual achievement through a self sublimation of the soul, and like personal paths, whether different can be, none of them can claim or can be seen as the ONLY one or worst the "chosen" one!
Which translated means: that NOBODY has or can claim in this world the monopoly of truth.... NOBODY!!
That's what I believe and I will fight for...
...a new world of peace among differentiations, whether it's gonna be dominated by Pagans or not!
Which means just FREEDOM of choice!! A forgotten word for many of the fundamentalist religions of today!
By Roman Paganism I mean including all the cults that were spread out through the immense ancient Roman Empire, including all the Greeks, Egyptians, Celts, Babylonians and etc.
As we know all the major cults of antiquity were ideally represented in the Roman Pantheon.
Furthermore Roman Magic was the original matrix of Modern Wicca as for Leland and Gardner visions.
One of the point more debated about my "vision" of modern Paganism is the general unwelcome concept by a lot of modern Pagans about the needs for a Pagan guidance. A guidance in the hands of a person, as a Pontifex Maximus ( Leader or Messiah, or a Priestess if you like... )...
I can superficially sympathize with that skepticism, even agree partially that a needs of a kind of a Pagan Mondial Leader can be a thing not in tune with the essence of Paganism... but I can argue that one of the weakest point of Paganism was about his fragmentation in many differentiate cults! After all I sincerely believe instead that an expert and wise ( hopefully ) guidance is absolutely needed, with a legitimate structure on the back that will establish modern Paganism as a real legitimate public entity with a tangible role in our society.
In becoming a unified entity, among obvious differentiations within the different cults, our voice through this new Pagan committee can be heard finally by all, getting surely a much more strong impact on the media and masses.
This committee will be the one in charge of electing a Leader ( similar to a Democratic style, this leader can be elected through voting, for a fixed amount of years each time, in perpetual change ), that with the help of a kind of Pagan Senate ( do you remember Rome?... ), can direct the all Neopagan modern movement!...
This implies evidently a strong effort for the Pagans to become, I will say FINALLY after centuries of solitary cults attempts, an ensemble that can trespass personal goals and interests for the good of the entire Pagan community...
Paganism strongly needs to erase the errors of our ancestors that were underestimating the value of unity, to become finally a powerful center instead to be fragmented into millions of little spread out cults...
Regarding my personal call to ask for a clarification from the Major Religions about their real goals and nature, I like to add that nothing is more far from the truth of my real intentions to be considered as an antagonist or to worst an enemy of millions of non-Pagan people...
I respect Islam, Christianism, Judaism and any other religion of the Planet.
What I don't accept is the fundamentalism embedded in them. If Islam will remove his intolerance and fundamentalism, I will be the first one to enter, if they let me, the mosque to pray with them.
So needs to be really clear that I'm not in any way against people that profess a different Credo from mine. In fact, in being a proud son of the libertine ancient Rome, I totally believe that people need to be free to choose and practice their own religion or cult.
But I know also that Religions are mainly just a way or path to lead us to a spiritual achievement through a self sublimation of the soul, and like personal paths, whether different can be, none of them can claim or can be seen as the ONLY one or worst the "chosen" one!
Which translated means: that NOBODY has or can claim in this world the monopoly of truth.... NOBODY!!
That's what I believe and I will fight for...
...a new world of peace among differentiations, whether it's gonna be dominated by Pagans or not!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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Dear Members,
I hope that knowing each other better, some of you start hopefully familiarizing yourself with my vision, so that in the future we can avoid misunderstandings and useless repeated confrontations.
Furthermore we know that everything that is manifested in this "maya plane" ( The illusion of Maya ), has a relative nature, so that a discussion can have many solutions, or no solutions as everything can be seen under many different angles and perspectives! ....
With a peace of mind for Maya and her tricks, I don't like to sympathize for anarchy, neither to create a site for anarchic Pagan souls: I'm alerting all the members, that believe in modern Wiccan minestrone, that they maybe can find here something disappointing in my postings...
Neither, as an example, I like to enter discussions on the nature and tradition of Wicca when it is clear from historical proofs that this tradition is not certainly belonging to Aleyster Crowley or Gardner ( they were just re-using it... ), rather to old Rome's Magical Tradition.
Furthermore it's one of my goals to "purify" this Wiccan-Pagan tradition from unwanted modern additions. I feel that all the Pagans need to drink at the pure ancient sources, before to enter modern derivative paths!.. Just to say that many modern paths, as also some bad old ones, can really mislead the adept or the Magus-Witch...
Regarding me, I explored through personal experiences several spiritual paths, as I lived in different countries of the world.
At the end of my spiritual adventures I discovered that everything I was searchin', and I really mean that, was already literally buried below my feet, among the old ruines of Rome...
Many of the cults I met ( besides Scientology ...lol lol ) were already known in the old "eternal city", thousands of years ago. Under different names they were already professed by many of the Roman Pagans.
So that for me Rome is not just a symbol of Roman Emperors, of fascism, but mainly a city-symbol, a symbol of free expression of cults, where great artists lived close to philosophers, to magus and shamans... no other place of the world can hardly be compared to that...
Then I took Rome as a symbol of my research and a symbol of eternal Paganism!
But I learned also that a powerful city that created the fundaments for Her universal freedom needs to defend this freedom and its big value!!!
That's why it will be naive to even conceive a society without defenses!!
The example above ( The Mayans ) shows a civilization that was almost cancelled from the earth because of a stone age technology and poor military defense ... so that unless you want to repeat their pitfall, cause we know that history repeats itself, it is simply laughable to think in a world of free shamans living in a paradise without defenses and political and social structures!!.... maybe it's beautiful and romantic to think that, but certainly unconceivable, dangerous and outdated....
Re the 5th Sun: I personally tend to take distance from kind of obscure prophecies... so that I will wait for this 5th Sun, if any, without shaking!... surely I believe that Earths and Sun, like every celestial object, has cycles that can brings big changes... just we don't really know when and how!.... ( well if I'm wrong this community then will be over in 2012!!... )
It will be also against our best interests even as solitary Magus or Shamans, or how you like to call yourself, to keep renouncing a unification under a Neopagan comittee with a "famous" leader-messenger, as a wise link with the media and the world.
Regarding Chaos Magick, as badly interpreted here by some of our brothers, this certainly doesn't mean at all a real chaos in the structure of your personal cult, or in the corpus of Paganism, neither in the society.
The Pagan chaotic path imply only the usage of different elements from different cults at once, that's why the name Chaotic, which I personally think is an unfortunate definition choice, since can be very misleading!...
Interpreting Paganism in this way is infantile and ignores the real nature of Paganism that was a spiritual science of knowledge of nature, a nature that even when seems chaotic, follows rigid mathematical laws....
So that a "Pagan anarchic teenager rebel" from my perspective can be seen as a sailor that without water and food trying to sail towards a big ocean!!...
Lastly I repeat that there is no need to be in continuous disagreement between us!
So that everyone of you that can be in disagreement with me and my perception of Paganism, maybe start in searchin' for another Pagan community, probably more in tuned with the average typical Wiccan Paganism...
There are others good Pagan communities around, probably even better of this little one, that anyway has one big goal: not to have millions of members but to revive the "genuine" spirit of ancient Paganism, that was in Rome at its apogee and glory!...
As Rome assembled together all the Pagans of the ancient Western world, I will try this Herculean attempt!....
... In the spirit of my enlightened ancestors you are welcomed to join and also free to leave, if you like!...
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My last posting wasn't directed "directly" to DragonKnight rather that Autumn and another buddies which I forgot the name now..
However, after taking the time to read your long postings Dragonknight, I feel if I well understood, in your "obscure" last message about what is the right or wrong path, an anti-traditional message... I can say that without entering a "magical" status there is not magic, neither a shaman or a witch status, and that the right path is just one, whetever cult you profess... so that most of the time many of us that call themselves Shamans or Magus, just cause they have a deep voice, long hair, an ancient stick, thinking to be the smarter professor of all, but lacking in the "magical" inner factor ( able to fly the vertical ascent with the soul... ), are just deceiving themselves...
Regarding your previous posting, with your allusions to the use by me of the names of Roman Gods, I think is really clear that in a broad spectrum I consider those Gods like spiritual forces that in reality are without forms, name and nations, so that they loose the real name of a Roman or a Celtic God to embed just a spiritual force and meaning...but they still have a relevant importance from our level which is in the realm of matter, so that a Roman God is directly connected with the spiritual force related to the power underneath Rome!.. a power that proved itself in the glorious past, so that contains a magical seed that is vibrant and alive! ...
Besides the everyday world confusion, we don't like or need enlightened professors or teachers here that will create an unwanted friction and separativity form the traditions of the past but man of ... good will!
It is also clear that I believe being the Roman tradition the favorite one, since the Roman empire fuses many of the Celtic-Etruscan-Egyptians-Persian-Roman-Greek traditions in one!
Making this tradition an exceptional magical tool for everybody!...
Then I repeat my kind invitation to all of you that disagree with my vision, wanting to distort my thoughts in vain repetitive masturbatory exercises that shows a total oblivion of the Tradition basic concepts in order to enter an illusory egotistic sterile path, to stop their personal vague wonderings or to leave this community for a better place, where Paris Hilton's magic ( by Paris Hilton I mean superficial teens alike easy, illusory, impossible achievements ... ) and "tower of Babel" alike experiments are allowed!....
Also Dragon I saw that you tried several times to "interpret" my thoughts, since your results are kind of obscure it is maybe better instead of making this weird exercise that you will ask me directly how i think, hopefully reaching maybe a better understanding, instead to jump to some wrong superficial judgement... if you ever care...
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Thanks Dragon,
that's why I believe that Pagan Romans was also great, cause they didn't really tracked a real border between real and spiritual-magical world. This especially true in the first years of Rome, when the Etruscan matrix on part of the Romans ritual and beliefs was stronger...
So as Rome did, taking care of the dualistic material and spiritual aspect of life, I think that a smart neopagan needs to do.
This is why I propose to your attention the Roman model, as a possible solution for the various challenge of our life:
1. Roman Pagan structure intended as a basic model, that surely needs further improvements for our modern times needs....
2. Rome intended as a spiritual entity, as a real source of energy from this planet, as a gate to a superior magical state!
Obviously I don't mean to say that Rome is the only sacred place of this world!... rather I like to think of Her like the outside time reverberating magical centre of the NeoPagan world!
This can be seen also as a "funny" revenge for the Pagan Gods versus Christianity, that made my city their own sacred centre with Vatican city, the Pope & co, building the Christians temples literally above the pre existing Pagan temples!....
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Dragon,
I'm not really replying in detail your posting.
I just like to underline that my ideal Paganism gets some hints from the old Rome, and that Rome itself is just like a symbol for me, a symbol that can or cannot be related to history. So that all the emperors stories are kind of secondary, to a primary point which is the symbolical-alchemical power of that town and region!
In fact I'm referring to the old Rome not mainly as an historical model, rather that to a "power" that lies in this city... I know that this concept can sound a little weird...Surely I don't sympathize with Rome cause I was just born there, my reasons are much deeper than that....
However talking about Rome ( I mean without saying banalities or things that are just propaganda against Rome ... ) will require from me to write the size of about an Encyclopedia!! ... and I will surely then start in boring everybody here, even the few ones that still are sympathizing with me!....
Regarding Islam I like to point out that the threat is not just what they can do with atomic power and so on... but the most dangerous scenario , which is happenning NOW, is that they will conquer next your country just with the expansion of their religion, becoming the first religion in the Us and then in the rest of the world. So that probably won't be any fight!!
They will get your country in their hands without the need of any army!!
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Dragon,
you are always welcome in Italy as all of you!....
Answering some of your remarks:
The story of Jesus, even accepted and "digested" as it is ( we know without making everybody angry that we don't have substantial and trustable real proofs of his life and happenings ... ) shows, through the historical legend, that Pilatus , the roman "boss" in Judaea at the time, tried following a Roman political practice during the festivity of Passover, to let the jewish people choose one among the prisoners that were condemned to crucifixion ( by the way crucifixion was a death penalty originated in Greece... )... we know that they choose Barabbas. This can show also that a Roman authority tried to save Jesus and in reality the real guilty are the Jews of Jerusalem.... So that the death of Jesus was decided by Jewish fanatics and "again" fundamentalist fanatics that saw in this new Rabbi or Messiah a kind of threat, as an element of destabilization of their old "sacred" principles and truth revealed by the ancient Prophets!
Certainly I don't want to say that Pilatus was a philanthropist, but surely tried in a strict Roman way, which implied to be tight with the rules and responsibility to maintain order, peace and political stability in the Judaea of the time, that was for the Rome one of the most turbulent "provincae" ( district ) of the Empire...
For the Islam issue, you know that I'm more than skeptical, since Islam it is taking over in the world as the second religion of this planet with a strong unfortunate percent of increase compared to the first one, Christianism,which instead its rapidly decreasing....
As element of social defense and to Westernize these intolerant sons of Mohammed, let's hope then, as you suggest, in the red neck people of US (lol) and in the famous American trio: Coca Cola, Mc Donalds and pop corn!... do I have to add the Italian "invincible" Napolitaine Pizza??!!
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Sy Calaelen,
as an example, your "chaotic" approach, which imply the use of different elements from different paths its totally in tune with the ancient Roman Tradition!
So that what we call with strong "emphasis" today Chaos magick, pretending to see in that a new form of magic, is just instead nothing new, but just the same, or if you like, part of the old path of our Pagan ancestors....
That's why we need to be aware of the inconsistent and faked up connotations of some of the modern Paganism cults interpretations!
Furthermore, in my super humble opinion, is evident the need for a new deep review of old Paganism!
A review to be made directly on the ancient models, without personal gratuite additions, before to eventually embrace the more recent ones!
This can be also seen as a wise preparation before to enter and experience a field of knowledge that was already inspected with great care by our Pagan ancestors....
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“The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.” – Michaelangelo-
I like to say that the dream and goal of Rome reached quite the opposite of this Michelangelo's motto.... then perhaps it is about time for us to re join the great Greco-Roman "Pagan dream model" of our ancestors, refusing this annihilated, apathetic and spiritually flat-unappealing modern world based mainly on "manipulated" teachings of the so called revealed religions!
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Permalink Reply by faith on
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i agree if ********************** if this person would be a teacher and open minded! that should be a rule! i dont think it would be that hard- connect all the wiccan/pagan sites, get all the high priests/preiestesses together and anyone who wants to go, select people (others write about them too) and do an online (with media so ppl feel theyre apart of it- like a youtube thing) and vote, and have a big bang celebration at one of the wicca buildings and make sure its news worthy. and a new traditional ceremony would need to be made :)*************************************************************************************************************
lol no fights on where it happens- it should never matter- just where the most people are and the best/ easiest celebrating place
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i would like to mention that not all traditions are roman, like african, greek, celtic, egytian, and id rather not have a name with roman in it- but something new- but i do like your idea- is this for wicca or paganism?
it wouldn't be hard - the basic concepts from each tradition are close -
but the main person would have to have a person from each tradition at there finger tips- or learn them all!
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Faith ( wasn't your name jessica?...),
I'm glad that you agree with me. Rome is just a name to define a model of omni-paganism that at the time of ancient Rome was embedding all the ancient Pagan models, cause all the cults where represented in the Roman pantheon. I will shortly post some video on my thoughts so that hopefully some misunderstanding will be overcome...
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Belle Noire,
Forget about the Leader...Pagans needs to be united to fight for our rights! ... in the respect of diversity of cults.
As we see ( unfortunately many of bros and sisters here seems to be blind... ) Christianism and Islam are rising, strengthen their intolerance and suppression of freedom. Christianism in a subtle way, Islam blatantly arrogantly. So that we need to tie up our body & souls to create an united Paganism!...for the benefit of us who believes in freedom!
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