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The Muslim World needs to clarify itself!!
Hello,
A Muslim man, in San Petersburg ( Russia ), killed a daughter just cause she was wearing a miniskirt, which is probably seen as scandalous for the Koranic law, he actually hired three other Muslims to murder the young girl!
Unfortunately this is not an isolated case but one of the many cases of intolerance and madness against women ( and more... ) from Muslim believers.
This didn't happen in the middle of somewhere like an Arabic village but in one of the most important city of Russia...
Certainly it's not the first time that we heard about similar atrocities and I personally frankly got enough...
I always had hard time in believing that this kind of acts are belonging to a genuine doctrine of the Koran or an interpretation of it...
I know that in the world there are "good" Muslims, but today there are too many horrifying and unacceptable acts made by them in the name of this religion, that I start almost to believe that the vast majority of them share a real brutal belief... I would like to know your opinion at this regard and overall if you think that it would be nice if President Obama, who strives for a "reconciliation" of USA with the Islamic World, will ask the most influential spiritual leaders of Islam to clarify once and for all if the religion of Mohammed is really a violent intolerant credo as it seems unfortunately often... and if these kinds of acts, which are really extreme and foolish, made always in the name of Allah, are legitimated or not by the Koran and by the contemporary spiritual leaders!!... So that finally we will be more aware of the real nature of Islam, because without a CLEAR explanation, a black shadow will be always surrounding them and their religion...
A Muslim man, in San Petersburg ( Russia ), killed a daughter just cause she was wearing a miniskirt, which is probably seen as scandalous for the Koranic law, he actually hired three other Muslims to murder the young girl!
Unfortunately this is not an isolated case but one of the many cases of intolerance and madness against women ( and more... ) from Muslim believers.
This didn't happen in the middle of somewhere like an Arabic village but in one of the most important city of Russia...
Certainly it's not the first time that we heard about similar atrocities and I personally frankly got enough...
I always had hard time in believing that this kind of acts are belonging to a genuine doctrine of the Koran or an interpretation of it...
I know that in the world there are "good" Muslims, but today there are too many horrifying and unacceptable acts made by them in the name of this religion, that I start almost to believe that the vast majority of them share a real brutal belief... I would like to know your opinion at this regard and overall if you think that it would be nice if President Obama, who strives for a "reconciliation" of USA with the Islamic World, will ask the most influential spiritual leaders of Islam to clarify once and for all if the religion of Mohammed is really a violent intolerant credo as it seems unfortunately often... and if these kinds of acts, which are really extreme and foolish, made always in the name of Allah, are legitimated or not by the Koran and by the contemporary spiritual leaders!!... So that finally we will be more aware of the real nature of Islam, because without a CLEAR explanation, a black shadow will be always surrounding them and their religion...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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Nope mom, this time I accept No apologise for your foolish words Jacintha,
I don't preach hate at all, as clearly state many times by my writings and my life proofs!
But surely I don't believe that we have to be always tolerant or close our eyes, like in the case of this bloody absurd murder!
If we accept the happenings then we are responsible of accepting them!
I have many friends from every Religion or place of this world...so that nobody can call me a racist!
I'm really deep indebt for my personal spiritual training with Sufism, which was the base for the Islamic religion.
So I don't have nothing personal against Islam!
But when Islam become a system of extremism and brutality then I say NO!!!!
I tried to create a Pagan community with a larger spectrum than the common ones, that are like a new age monochord song that always repeat a same theme over and over...
My personal battle is against, among many, ignorance.
I don't care, as you pointed out, about many postings on this topics...
Furthermore I believe that everything which is directly cutting the legs of freedom is of major importance for us primarily as human beings and secondarily as part of the Neopagan movement. The cleaning and teaching of a better perspective for the various religions, Pagans or not Pagans, is a part of my personal goal and I believe a duty for a Neopagan responsible folk.
The perspective of this community is not to be just a group of people interested in try to fly on a broom or in magical rituals, but to harmonize our living in this contradictory and inflamed 2000 era, putting our eyes on the topics that everyday are in front of us...
Various people in this community pointed out cases of discrimination against Paganism from other accolades of various religions, especially Christianism and Islam. So that is extremely important, in order to build a new world of peace and reciprocal respect among differences ( a utopia?... ) to start the process to condemn everything that is working against this process.
That's why we are really tuned, among others, on religious issues!
I strongly believe that people like you are in a way responsible with their obtuse and sensless behavior of the repetition of those crimes against the dignity of human race!!
Regarding the gratuitous personal offense you made to me, I underline that publicity on the site is handled by Google which automatically chooses the advertisement with their spider system based on words on the page.
Lastly, in response to your superficial and impertinent words, I'm gonna leave your posting as an example of stupidity and blind carelessness!
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Good choice sister, since people that act as protectors of criminal acts don't belong to our community...
I took your mention about fascism as a compliment, since the origins of fascism ( a different kind from the Mussolini party... ) belongs to the Etruscans! Obviously I do not consider myself a fascist at all.
I assume that there are people around like you, that likes to consider fascists everybody that takes a position against something or has or expresses even an idea. Instead probably you prefer people that lay in a silent limbo, fearful to make a non-politically correct statement or to get bad karma...I think that all of that is outdated from the 60s.
I believe instead that it's about time to take a real action to clean the world from injustice like we need to preserve Mother earth and nature from pollution!...
In particular in this discussion I took a strong and firm position against what seems to be an intolerant, repetitive, obtuse and criminal action of a part of many followers of the Mohammed religion, people that have blood on their hands from innocent victims!....
Mom I certainly DO NOT oppose Islam, neither i'm interested in that! But I'm against a wrong interpretations of the Koranic Sutras!!
In fact I know also that many good and sincere Muslims are sympathizing with me on that, like to murder innocent people is totally outside of the law of God or Allah as you like!
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I'm really glad that this topic stimulated so deep reflections!
Thanks a lot Donna for your words & visions which I share... excellent job!!
Due to my work, unfortunately my time to devote to this community is too short for what is really needed and my English is not so fluent to let me express with speed and confidence in a brief time... however Donna seems to read a lot of my thoughts and to share many of my beliefs.
I'm thankful to you again to explain with a lot of patience and generosity, which I don't always possess, some of the most tricky points in the issues that we are examining in the various topics...
It is also true that in being the founder of this community I choose of not to act as a rigid controller and to not post or appear in discussions very often.
As for my personal disagreement with Jacintha, I regret to use strong words or concepts but sometimes an energetic shaking is needed to reactivate sleeping souls & co.!
Whether Christians, Muslims, Neopagans or other I wish the blessings of the Gods on all the people of this tormented but unique and amazing planet, so that an era of brotherhood, even with diversity among us, can really start for the good and prosperity of all of us.
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Permalink Reply by Silvio on
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My english is not too good to express clearly my points of view of this complicated subject but I understand you Paolo. There is bad people in the power positions using religion to manipulate ignorant people to accomplish their own goals. Their motto is "to divide to conquer". It's good to the system to make the war, the war is profitable and the only thing they need is to throw people of one faith against people of another faith to start a new war, I mean, the fanatic ones! Don't matter if it is Muslim or Christian religion it is the same problem. The two faith are so similar that I think that maybe it is a problem with their beliefs system. I mean it is like a tree with rotten roots, the tree is going to die sooner or later. This two faith have to update their thoughts and beliefs to the XXI century! I am a Neo Pagan and I never hide it of the people around me. I dislike when Christians look at me with that superiority aptitude as if their faith was the only valid one and I am a poor soul that is condemned to the burn of hell! I want respect as I respect them! And don't matter the faith, violent acts against others must be judged according to the law. Acts against our freedom of thought must be judged too. We have to keep our freedom of thought or we will be turning into another dark age. Blessed be brother for building this sanctuary where we can find our own kind and share our visions of what means to be a Pagan, or it is better to say Neo Pagan!
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Thanks AUSPEX for appreciation about vision and my English ( but I have to say that my darling Rebecca H. reviews and helps my postings!...)
I have to add that it's absolutely historically true that Christianism and Islam are similar sister religions, just separated at birth and guess why: they are both a "development" ( in the case of Christianism, better say a plagiarism ) of the ancient Roman deliberately forgotten religion called Mithraism. I did extensive research on that and the astonishing results will be in a book I'm writing on this subject and Neopaganism more in general....
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I think you have a very accurate perspective of all this subject Donna. I think we are just trying to make this world a better place for living fighting against the injustice not against a particular faith, Muslim or Christian. It's like Magick, I don't believe in Black or White Magick, but I do believe in Black and White Magicians!!! Each one of us has to chose to do what is good or what is bad. But we can't forget that people has been manipulated to reproduce the system in which they live. We here are blessed because the Gods and the Goddesses gave us this insight of the truth. Maybe the Gods and Goddesses want us to start changing the world even if for the future generations. We can't cross our arms and wait for another meteor to explode over the head of all this bad people!!! But it is not a bad idea at all! hehehe
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I really wonder if there is really a need to respond to somethin' like Jacintha post, which shows an irresponsable superficiality, naivity, to say the less, and enormous ignorance about the real happennings in today Islamic world.
However let me say Jacintha that: Surely I'm not perfect, neither do I call or consider myself a hierophant or a new Messiah of the Neopagan community... but whether you like it or not, I still have a mind, personal opinions and personality, plus I do think that in this world a leader is always needed, and this does not imply to be or necessarily be considered a fascist...
To return to our case, the Islamic world that I knew, cause I lived in India and briefly in Iran when I was a teenager, is responsible to accept blindly inputs from the Mullhas, that are their spiritual leaders and guides.
I believe that in 2009 everyone needs to take his own responsability whether they are rich or poor, ignorant or not....so that the story that the majority of people of Islam are poor frankly sucks and sounds a big bullshit...
Of Islam in US and in the rest of the world we just know the tip of the iceberg... among several issues, I saw in India and Iran the repetitive annihilation of womens rights and the strong anti Western culture propaganda, spreading out through all countries.
Without mentioning AL Quaeda, which is largely supported in Islam by the way, just look at this: how come the people of Islam, and I mean all Islam nations can accept that woman needs to be annihilated, submissed and brutalized as a common practice everyday?
How we can accept a religion which bases as a first goal a Holy War against every non-Islamic country to control our world, with violence, suicide attempts, with the only goal to gain power and to take away our freedom in the name of Mohammed!!??....
So then Islam as it is today can be an extremely dangerous religion!
Jacintha if you don't know that, then you need to be informed before to speak to me..
That's why as I said in my previous postings I will like to know from the Islamic leaders what they think of all of those crimes, getting FINALLY a CLEAR explanation of what is today their religion... I'm waiting to listen to something...
And this has nothin' to do with racism. I will surely not accept a religion that will force me to give up my freedom or that will dictate to me like to a slave what to do or not!
Now since you seem to ignore and to manipulate my meanings I repeat:
I really don't appreciate people that just open the mouth without knowing the real historical truth of what they are talking about..
In your case I believe that you, with all your repetitive attempts are responsible of covering the face of murders, like in this case of a murder of an innocent young Muslim woman. Then you are in a way participating to the crime.
On top of this you call me also litterally an idiot and a fascist!
Maybe if there is a fascist among the two of us it's surely not me...
I believe that hopefully you should stop your absurd defense of this manipulated fake Islam that little has to do with Mohammed teachings and original message and to start to be conscious of what is happening NOW! Then you need also to give a sincere apology to all the victims of Islamic brutality, brutality which is too blatant and horrific to be justified or ignored!
Regarding the action to take as a Pagan... well this is another chapter that requires a long and ponderate answer from myself.... however surely wont be a new Jihad... plus everything that eventually will be, cause unfortunately matter still matter, won't see you aboard so no fear and no problem! ...
One last thing, I knew from past experiences and historical records that the Gods, whatever you like to depict or call them, doesn't appreciate neither likes fearful and confused person around their altars...
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Jacintha I don't like to fool around when people are killed...so that you stay at the facts!
Since you didn't, I'm still waiting for you about a possible explanation of the hidden reasons that are embedded in those repetitive crimes, that certainly belong to an extreme and perverted interpretation of the Koran sutras by some modern Muslims.
This was the real core of this discussion!
Instead I'm still reading your postings about my EGO or other facts that are not pertinent to this issue... neither I'm interested in knowing that the killers were taken by Russian Police... that's not obviously the point..
Instead like to know the philosophical, dogmatic, moral and ethical implications of the fact and why Muslims still doing this atrocities...
However I'm absolutely amazed by you... how dare you to neglect evidences that everyday are in front of our eyes!
I dont manipulate neither exagerate anything sister, evidences are in front of us!
I don't defend rights of women neither belongs to any church of this planet as I'm just a free spirit!
You surely have free speech here, which you won't in nations like Iran, but you need to control what you say about such inflammatory issues... especially when what you said about the contemporary reality of Islam is just a blatant lie...
There is no physical incarnation without EGO.
Jacintha I like to add again, that in considering you responsible of sympathy with people that commit crimes, I will ignore postings from a bloody irresponsible people like you that are also obtuse at the point of neglecting and manipulating reality even in front of undeniable evidences... -
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Permalink Reply by Psyfool Berry on
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Okay, in a Muslim, i'm not sure whether i've done any sort of horrifying or unacceptable act lately, cant say i've ever met What's-his-name Ladin nor i do want to, but you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Muslims. So, on their behalf i apologize to all the victims of our brutality and as a personal note, i will avoid trying to kill anyone, or blow myself up or indulge in any other forms of gratuitous violence. Once again, Please do accept my apology on behalf of my fellow muslims because if you don't, we probably have to kill you then
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Psyfool ( it seems a case for a "fool" man ... ),
Being a Roman warrior Mithraist I do not care for your insane mention to kill me, whether I will accept or not your apology!... I surely don't accept your apology, when the root of a religion has been perverted, like in the case of modern Islam...
This is a serious issue for your religion. Islam needs to rethink itself and explain to the world why she became the today intolerant and violent credo.
I dont need then your fake apologies sir!! -
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Permalink Reply by Rebecca (Community Moderator) on
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Psyfool Berry -
Your comments here show a lack of knowledge of Islam and a lack of knowledge of English, in addition to a lack of knowledge of how to discuss a topic in a forum.
I viewed your profile and see that is rather blank as well. Whoever you are, please either spend your time here wisely or don't spend your time here.
Rebecca H.
Community Moderator -
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Jacintha,
Somebody that provokes, as you did first with me, offending me with gratuituous bad words, needs to expect a reply that can be harsh.. I think... however there is no problem in telling you, and this will remain, that I consider your approach to this issue the one of a bloody idiot and ignorant about the happenings in the Islamic World!...you can certainly playin' with me in jerkin' around the issue, but you won't deceive the Gods that can see deeply inside and judge us about our actions whether we take or not responsability, yes or not action...
Usually my postings are reviewed shortly after I write them, cause my english is not fluent and perfect, then you can have slight differences among my first posting...
Going back to the issue, another time, I have to say that what's happenning, that as you said seems made by just few Muslims extremists ( WRONG ANALYSIS ! ) instead IS NOT, cause a large part of the Islamic world agree and apply or is involved ( at any level, not just in murdering... ) in this cruel, integralist and barbaric way of living and interpreting their Dogmas : what happened in Russia is a continous following of repetitive chain of acts ( crimes better say...) against freedom, in this case against a young woman. The general behavior of modern Islam evidently, whether you see that or agree, necessarilly follows a well defined philosophy and way of life, so that can be considered really globalized in the Islamic World and generalized to the whole Islamic population...!
As I said IN VAIN to you several times, in this particular topic are out of context your personal attacks against to me... neither here I'm interested in what you call Womens rights, which is another entirely different issue.
And I think that our fellow Pagans aren't interested either.
If you like, instead to discuss my personal vision, I invite you to start a new topic, cause what you doin' here its a kind of non sense and terribly sucks following your shameful coverage of the happenings... You again are using your propaganda to avoid to tell us ( that's why we created a forum ) your opinion about this attitude of large part of the Islamic world! Ignoring this is be sympathizing with the criminals and givin' more power to them!!...
all the rest is silence as Shakespeare said, and this time I give my word that I won't ever reply back to you in this topic... I will use just this words: BLATANT OBTUSE IGNORANT NO NEED FOR REPLY or BOINNFR....
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