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The Muslim World needs to clarify itself!!
Hello,
A Muslim man, in San Petersburg ( Russia ), killed a daughter just cause she was wearing a miniskirt, which is probably seen as scandalous for the Koranic law, he actually hired three other Muslims to murder the young girl!
Unfortunately this is not an isolated case but one of the many cases of intolerance and madness against women ( and more... ) from Muslim believers.
This didn't happen in the middle of somewhere like an Arabic village but in one of the most important city of Russia...
Certainly it's not the first time that we heard about similar atrocities and I personally frankly got enough...
I always had hard time in believing that this kind of acts are belonging to a genuine doctrine of the Koran or an interpretation of it...
I know that in the world there are "good" Muslims, but today there are too many horrifying and unacceptable acts made by them in the name of this religion, that I start almost to believe that the vast majority of them share a real brutal belief... I would like to know your opinion at this regard and overall if you think that it would be nice if President Obama, who strives for a "reconciliation" of USA with the Islamic World, will ask the most influential spiritual leaders of Islam to clarify once and for all if the religion of Mohammed is really a violent intolerant credo as it seems unfortunately often... and if these kinds of acts, which are really extreme and foolish, made always in the name of Allah, are legitimated or not by the Koran and by the contemporary spiritual leaders!!... So that finally we will be more aware of the real nature of Islam, because without a CLEAR explanation, a black shadow will be always surrounding them and their religion...
A Muslim man, in San Petersburg ( Russia ), killed a daughter just cause she was wearing a miniskirt, which is probably seen as scandalous for the Koranic law, he actually hired three other Muslims to murder the young girl!
Unfortunately this is not an isolated case but one of the many cases of intolerance and madness against women ( and more... ) from Muslim believers.
This didn't happen in the middle of somewhere like an Arabic village but in one of the most important city of Russia...
Certainly it's not the first time that we heard about similar atrocities and I personally frankly got enough...
I always had hard time in believing that this kind of acts are belonging to a genuine doctrine of the Koran or an interpretation of it...
I know that in the world there are "good" Muslims, but today there are too many horrifying and unacceptable acts made by them in the name of this religion, that I start almost to believe that the vast majority of them share a real brutal belief... I would like to know your opinion at this regard and overall if you think that it would be nice if President Obama, who strives for a "reconciliation" of USA with the Islamic World, will ask the most influential spiritual leaders of Islam to clarify once and for all if the religion of Mohammed is really a violent intolerant credo as it seems unfortunately often... and if these kinds of acts, which are really extreme and foolish, made always in the name of Allah, are legitimated or not by the Koran and by the contemporary spiritual leaders!!... So that finally we will be more aware of the real nature of Islam, because without a CLEAR explanation, a black shadow will be always surrounding them and their religion...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Founder on
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I like my friends after 80 postings on this topic, that I started, to make a rough summary of my achievements:
1. All my Muslim friends, included two cooks of a restaurant, are now hating me. I sincerily fear the cooks that can overcook my pasta and more...plus I received death menaces from a group of Romans Islamic fundamentalists!....still as a typical proud Italian mediocre man, tormented by sex, soccer and culinary perfectionism, fearing the most the cooks threat!!...
2. I now recognize, as naively desired first by me, that will be really difficult if not impossible for the American Obama administration to start a symposium with Islamic leaders asking them for a "rethinking" of Islamic religion in order to create a new revisited one...
3. I realize that being an old roman Pagan ( or better if you like an old Roman fart ) my thoughts are in completely antagonism with the young American Pagans views on this matter. The postings of those boys were unexpected for me as they tend to ignore what I thought being instead a big threat from a Pagan perspective.
Not only that, but I discovered like in the case of Brandon, that these new Pagan kids are ready to immolate themselves for the safety of the Planet or just that is correct and better to die rather than live in an unfair world!....
4. I also reached after many of my postings, as maybe well deserved, like the late G.W., the highest level of not popularity among members of this community...
5. I was capable to let a Muslim that lives in a Muslim country to express in writing his thoughts!!
6. I realized that for American people like Ray, America is not his home!...
7. I was this morning excommunicated by high Christians authorities of the Roman Church of Christ at Vatican, that discovered my double life as a Pagan soul, in adding also the suspect that I'm working for Islam, faking up my real intentions, that in reality are just to spread out Islam with an indirect bad publicity that will instead turn, like in a boomerang effect, in more visibility for the Islamic faith!!!....I think that they were suspicious also after seeing the postings of Jacyntha saying that I was an idiot!... I hate to admit that she was right: I was just doin’ a great service to the followers of Mohammed providing them free publicity!!
8. I acknowledge that my fellow friend Desfrata is willing to kill everybody that dare to touch a woman!!...
9. I need to say in complete honesty, in order to be from you further insulted and detested as a worm Italian traitor deserves, that a perverted part of me, unfortunately, after all these happenings starts in understand why Islam is becoming next probably the most popular religion in the world. And, this I really hate to say, that this blasphemous part of me start to admire more the crazy passion of those fuckn' Muslims for the religion of Mohammed rather that the apathy of our fellow Neopagan friends!!
10. One of my many girlfriends, since I share this custom with Muslims, shocked me tellin’ me that during my agitated nights of a Pagan soul, living in a new twilight of the Gods, sometimes I scream during my dreams: "Allah akbar!!" or Allah-God is great!!... screaming as a Pagan Muslim Demon!!!....
Now, next, thanks to further postings probably I will discover that the Twin Towers weren't not just shoot down by American friendly fire but in reality they never really existed, since they were just a living hologram made by the Tourism Office of New York City to enhance local tourism...!!
Wow! .... always asking forgiveness I dare to say: what stunning results in just few days!!...
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Permalink Reply by Rebecca (Community Moderator) on
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It's obvious that sarcasm is not your game because you don't get the comedy either.
Childish and impertinent and meaningless is your contribution. Your profile describes you for Anarchy Anarchy Anarchy. You are for no one but yourself. You reap the rewards of being American and celebrate by behaving this way. I hope you continue to practice martial arts, as you imply in your profile, because you surely will need to protect yourself with other than words.
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Jacintha,
I'm sorry to see that now you really add no value to this discussion "on point". All you are doing is playing with words and witticisms. Members like Donna, Auspex and Nurul are sharing true experience and perspective, opinion, sure some passion too. And of course Paolo shows his passion around the context, however, of his points. Others like Erik and Desfrata are at least trying, but they seem to have blinders on.
Your first participation in this topic was to complain about how it was propaganda listed on the main home page of this community and call the Founder an idiot. Talk about rude and obnoxious to start! I wonder what you are like when you walk into a room, sheesh, probably everyone leaves. Passion is good, let's have it, but try to look at yourself too.
My dear, this is not your community, so it is particularly foolish and immature of you to expect to be treated with care after that kind of entrance into a discussion, nor to be given the respect of "let's agree to disagree". You reap what you sow.
In regard to when you did try to participate in the actual topic, your perspective seemed to be that we should not worry about female suppression in the Muslim religion (as you characterized it) but to focus instead on the peace and love in our hearts and oh, also work with Amnesty international. And you also said that the local governments where some of the issues were, were taking some action. You even said it would be fine to have NO religions. Okaaaay. But you still miss the point. You cannot see the forest for the trees. You don't have to agree, but why can't you see it? Do you see how you miss the central issue? This is not a womens' rights issue.
If you read Nurul's and Auspex's posts, both of whom are not American nor residing in America, they seem to see what Paolo points to. Donna, an American, can see the point. Everyone else in disagreement seems to be American worried about religious racism. It's valid to be concerned about racism, but that is not what is happening here.
We are talking about brutal crimes made in the name of religious political motivations that need to be tamed. Hello? No one is saying that the Muslim religion should be eliminated.
I wish you, truly, the ability to have discourse with forethought (and hey a little reparte is cool, too) instead of jumping to erroneous conclusions.
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Permalink Reply by Silvio on
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It's really sad that the new generation of Neo Pagan people, if we can call them this way, have no understanding of the real threat that is coming back doors while they are sleeping and dreaming sweet dreams and have less passion than the fanatic fundamentalist Muslim around the world who believe that spread terror is the better way to prevent the reign of Satan and its demons. Don't you realize people that another dark age is approaching? C'mon! Wake up! Open your eyes! Or are you all so occupied with your own navel? May the Ancient Gods help you to see what's going on around you!
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I think they are occupied with their own reflection in the mirror, Auspex. Sadly, my fellow Americans are often too preoccupied with their cozy, safe bubble to bother considering what is happening in the rest of the world. This is the American reputation outside of America in Europe. I hate it but generally it can be said to be true.
Anyway, I'm not giving up on Neopagan people. I'm not giving up on intelligent Americans.
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Dear friend Auspex and Rebecca,
I appreciate your strenuous, generous efforts, but refrain! what for friends? ..as I said in my evidently sarcastic last posting made to at least getting some laugh instead of the usual shit I got from members here, I repeat: what for? To wake up who...? Auspex aren't you from Brazil? Then stop and enjoy your wonderful fresh big Brazil, instead to waist time in this stinky little community!....
How you can talk with people that with the most absurd and disgusting mental distortions are just perverting the sense of their lives and not just of 9/11??... Auspex give up!!! ... this is the world of "Jacyntha and the new Paris Hilton style alike Pagans!" ( hey guys sounds like a terrific name for a new Neopagan band !! )
Don't waste time.... instead I suggest you to prepare yourself for the world of the future ahead, a world that will see a Muslim dictator ruling an Islamic world with the compliant ex Pagan Jacyntha, now a new Muslim female, one of the many enslaved wives trying to taking care of her Muslim husband and almost unable to speak to him cause a big burka cover her repented mouth! ...
Better to go to study Islam dear Auspex, you will use more wisely your time rather then to speak to people that are not listening, neither capable, for evident shortage of intelligence of understand!...Those fellow "Neopagans" are not even capable to make a decent linear coherent reasoning, neither capable to understand past mistakes from an history that also they will probably ignore from the most, not being exciting as a videogame or a cell phone are for them!! ... Im not gonna say more that will imply using much more strong words than that!
I will post from now on just for worthy fellows... I will ignore the rest...
PERSONAL PRIVATE REFLECTIONS: Yesterday was a powerful tempest on Rome ( an Omen?..probably the Gods are disgusted too...maybe...), after my comedic last posting, I walked in that rainy nite, between destroyed and broken branches of trees, along an ancient Pagan Roman walls, strong remains of a different kind of heroic Paganism, that was destroyed by the advent of another powerful fundamentalist religion called Christianism!
These walls, like our modern Western society model, are now slowly crumbling... then I felt to be like a new melancholic Porphyry ( the Roman philosopher disciple of Plotinus... ), one of the last Pagan of a Paganism close to extinction, looking at the advent of Christianism during the fall of ancient Paganism, that was at that time little by little dying, eaten up by the advent of a new anti-Pagan hegemonic force ... like those powerful majestic walls are today, eaten up by the tyranny of time!....
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I had an insigh reading your post Paolo. Our civilization seems to them, the Muslim people, as a prostitute, corrupting the men and women souls into an absurd void of meaning. At least they have what to fight for! They have a purpose in their lifes even if to destroy the human culture and throw the world into another dark age. This wave of darkness is "reaching the shores" here in Brasil and people here refuses to see what is in front of their eyes too. The Christian fundamentalism is growing and occupying important political positions in the chambers and senate blocking very important decisions to the good of all.
I'm afraid of the day Muslims will disembark in our shores, conquering and destroying everything they could! (like the portuguese and spanish did in the south and central Americas). But you are right Paolo, while the wolves don't come I must enjoy the beautiful landscapes of Brasil! Be my guest! Hugs, Auspex.
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Seguro amigo Auspex,
History repeat itself, you just need to be capable to open your eyes and watch inside her! ... but instead often humans are like blind unsensitive spectators of their incoming disasters ...
I don't remember who said that "one of the tragedies of humanity is just to... forget!"...
So that past errors or precious experiences are often forgotten...
Unfortunately fundamentalism is a wild beast always, whether in the West or in the East of this Planet... but in the case of Islam is their own beloved favorite Flag!
As I already said, disgusted by some of my fellow young Neopagans coward and blind behavior, I still have a last pathetic trembling hope in the power of the Trio: Coca-Cola, Mc Donald's and Rock n' Roll, the famous destroyers of USSR Comunist Empire!!....
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I think that most of people doesn't worry about things doesn't concern to them. I mean why to worry about Muslims, Islam, fundamentalism, terrorism, whatever, it is happening so far from me! What it has to do with me? Nothing! They say. It's not my problem in fact. What can I do about it? Nothing too. It's because of this attitude that the world has been ruled by tyrants. In fact we don't have the sense of being one kind, we have no compassion to others suffering, we are so selfish, we can't worry about others, we can't lose our time with others problems. Everything has two sides and capitalism too, I mean, the dark side of capitalism is that capitalism accentuates the selfish side of the people in the running for the money. The relationships are colapsing around us, in every level. Someone said that "if someone raise one finger it shakes the distant stars" to say that everything is connected, nothing is alone or isolated in the universe. We can't run away or hide forever. We must to wake up while we still have time! I think that Neo Paganism can contribute to make the world a better place for all but we have to learn with the past mistakes and we have to make an effort to work together. We must get our butts off the couch and do some real action! Not only visualize bright colors, burn rare perfums in old metal vessels, light expensive candles, to store potions and oils in alabastras! We need real action to help the magick! I know for my own that it's not easy but I continue trying.
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Permalink Reply by Ray on
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Paolo, since you keep mentioning me by name in your posts, again I find myself in the curious position of actually responding to you. I want to stay away, as you suggested both in public and private communications.to me, but I I feel that I must respond, as I had the honor of serving as your example case in point number 6:
"I realized that for American people like Ray, America is not his home!..."
America is indeed my home. I love my country. I served honorably in the US Navy, where I was disabled on active duty. My daughter is now in her seventh year on active duty with the United State Army, having completed tours in both Afghanistan and Iraq as an Army Airborne sergeant. My father retired from the Army after 20 years, like my daughter, a paratrooper, with service in the Vietnam and Korean Wars. Not to mention my son-in-law, and two brothers-in-law, who are all currently serving our country in and out of uniform. It's been this way in my family in every generation since the Revolutionary War. We serve our country because we love our country, and because it is our duty as Americans.
Now, Paolo, don't mistake the above paragraph for my "wrapping myself in the flag". Just needed to make the point with you that I am, unlike Jacintha, no pacifist (though I deeply admire and respect her views on pacifism). I am completely prepared to defend my life, family, and home against any aggressors.
There just are no aggressors... I worry more about the Jehovah's Witnesses showing up with a carload of old people and Watchtowers smelling of mildew than I do about protecting my house against some mythical Muslim invasion.used as a rhetorical device in a forum thread. Not gazing at my navel here, but the scenarios that you describe (Jacintha in a burqa, Taleban taking Ray's beer) are just highly unlikely to ever occur in the physical plane.
You will likely invoke 9/11 here in response (and I do agree with Rebecca that 9/11 was an attack on my "home"). 9/11 was unimaginably horrific, but it was the criminal action, a conspiracy, if you will, of a relative few, and in no ways (whether we concede that the crime was committed by Wahabi fundamentalists or by hidden rulers) equates to full scale invasion by a unified Islamic occupying force bent on imposing sharia'h law on the free-thinking pagan infidels.
Again let me repeat, I love my country. America is indeed my home.
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Ray,
I appreciate your new approach to the topic and the passion within.
That's cool and highly honorable what you and your family did...
NOW if you push your attention more closely to my postings you will discover that the Islamic expansion, besides 9/11, poses a serious threat just by default!
Whether is true or not, whether we believe or not that this religion and the masses within are mainly fundamentalists, we do know for sure that many of their leaders and spiritual guides ARE Fundamentalists!
Furthermore we know that is likely that the whole Islamic World can be easily manipulated by them!
So that it is irrelevant and naive to discriminate among good or bad Muslims cause the final result will be always uncertain and full of danger for our ideological and practical Western concept of freedom!
We clearly cannot risk an Islamic invasion! Wait a moment, by Islamic invasion I do not necessarily mean an armed attack... it can be just the propagation of the Islamic Religion as ruler of the world! An ideological fundamentalist attack or better domination!!
At that point will be too late... we will be enslaved! As the ancient Pagan were defeated by the new Fundamentalists Christians with the fall of the Roman Empire...
I repeat: why we need to risk?... when with a pacific but strong intervention of all the non Islamic nations, we can hopefully not erase Islam, but redirect Islam towards a new peaceful direction! That necessarily will imply that Islam needs immediately renounce to Fundamentalism, dismissing leaders with a revision of the intolerant and extreme part of their credo.
I know for sure, cause I studied and loved Sufism, that ancient Islam was everything but violent, so that the real nature of Islam will remain untouched!!
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