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Soldier and a Pagan?
Do you think that being a pagan means you cant be a soldier and go to war? I want to know your views!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Torey on
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Hmmmm I don't think that there should be any issue with being a solider and a PAGAN...however, I can see an issue of being a solider and a WICCAN and that is solely because of the 'an it harm none' law.
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Permalink Reply by Jade on
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thank you torey for your opinion. So, being wiccan and a soldier can be a problem. 'Harm none' law is a very big weight on my husbands concious. he has never acctually hurt anybody but he will if he is in danger. But then again christains kill in war and they go by "Thou shall not kill" commandment. What do you think?
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That's right about the Christians and the 'thou shalt not kill' commandment - so if they can do it - then so can a Wiccan.
The thing is to understand the context in which 'an it harm none' was used. This means, without question, 'do not deliberately hurt someone else for your own personal satisfaction or mundane gain' - this does not mean 'do not defend your life, your country or your family'.
Jade said:thank you torey for your opinion. So, being wiccan and a soldier can be a problem. 'Harm none' law is a very big weight on my husbands concious. he has never acctually hurt anybody but he will if he is in danger. But then again christains kill in war and they go by "Thou shall not kill" commandment. What do you think?
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Permalink Reply by Lance on
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Hmmm. Interesting topic. Sorry for your husbands burden first of all. I know that must weigh heavy on him. Especially in todays society where hurting someone is always viewed as bad. I would have to say i'm not so sure about the harm none law relating to only magic. I guess it depends on your sect of wiccan. But the important thing to remember about wicca is that it is a 70 year old neo pagan religion made by gerald gardner that peices together the non violent aspects of a lot of pagan paths that in themselves hold many "violent" forms not only for protection but in honor of the Gods and Goddesses. And as being a new religion based on other pagan ideas i would believe (and see it in progress) that it would be open to new ideas and evolving forms of itself branching out in many different directions on many different issues. The question you're husband has to ask is "what is right for himself?" You must be true to yourself. You cannot be in tune with the earth, your surroundings, your gods and the universe if you are not first in tune with yourself. I myself see nothing wrong with it. War was a sacrificial ritual to my ancestors in honor of the Gods and they often hung christians from trees by their necks, when the christians tried to convert them, as a sacrifice to Odin.
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Well there is one other way to get to Vallhala... Carve the death runes into yourself while you are on your death bed and then bleed to death.
Erik said:The pagan Vikings believe that the only way to get to Valhalla (Valhöll) was to die honorably in combat. The Valkyries would choose those worthy; with half going to Odin's hall, and the other half would go to Freya's hall (I do not have much info on the difference between the two places). From that, it would seem that being a solder was not only acceptable, but something to strive to be.
As another poster touched on, war was a reality for the ancient peoples, and often times there was a need to fight; either to protect their family/clan/tribe or in self defense. I do not think the 'Harm none" rede was in place "back then", or if it where, there where exceptions. There is a difference between defending one's self (family, nation /etc), and murder. I do not think war amounts to murder, so if you are a solder you should be 'all set', though it might not be a bad idea to run it by the gods before joining an army.
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Permalink Reply by An tatú cailleach on
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I personally know several pagans within the military. No religious belief should be denied, however the harm none law within the wiccan crede could pose issues. However looking at it from the point of view of eclectic paganism no structure creates no boundaries. I know people who claim the beliefs is Wicca and are in the military but I do think there is a misconception in the world of wicca in that there is what I like to call "very lose structure" in other words, ways around the law, just as in the bible. Very much like "do unto others as they would do onto you" and "an eye for an eye" I guess you could say all religion is in itself an oxy moron (a little biblical humor there LOL) It's too bad that religious powers must set rules and boundaries on followers. It generates structure and with that structure you have organization. The differences between right and wrong lives within all of us. The problem is that not everyone has a "moral compass" that functions properly! Honestly patriotism to your country shouldn't follow a religious belief or law. I think it's our duty as American's to support our Military no matter what. After all no matter what rules, guidelines, or religious beliefs you follow, when your laying the ultimate price on the table to save a million fellow countryman whom you don't know or may not even care about your contribution.....you can't argue the point!!
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I'm not sure what the whole wiccan reed thing is about anyways. I mean I understand what it says and why I guess I just don't believe the same way. but I have heard two versions of the wiccan reed and read two versions. I mean there is of course the condensed version and then the extended poem version that is made based on the wiccan reed. But I'm talking agbout two versions of the wiccan reed itself. One says to "harm none, do what ye will." The other say "Harm none, do what ye will, lest it be in self defense."
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Permalink Reply by Lady Bronwyn on
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No, I don't think that you can't serve in the military because you are Pagan. My husband, a Wiccan, served in both the Navy and the National Guard. It has been estimated that we currently have over 2000 Pagans serving overseas.
Are you aware of the Pentacle Campaign?
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Permalink Reply by Merandella on
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Being a soldier is as much a personal calling as religion. It might be a bit more difficult to express your beliefs, but in war and battle it is important to believe in something. I don't think it makes a difference as long as the belief inspires one to keep going.
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No i'm pretty sure it was customary for a heathen king or warior who has lived his life and never fallen in combat to carve death runes into themselves on thier death bed in order to be able to go to Valhalla.
Erik said:Lance said:Well there is one other way to get to Vallhala... Carve the death runes into yourself while you are on your death bed and then bleed to death.
Erik said:The pagan Vikings believe that the only way to get to Valhalla (Valhöll) was to die honorably in combat. The Valkyries would choose those worthy; with half going to Odin's hall, and the other half would go to Freya's hall (I do not have much info on the difference between the two places). From that, it would seem that being a solder was not only acceptable, but something to strive to be.
As another poster touched on, war was a reality for the ancient peoples, and often times there was a need to fight; either to protect their family/clan/tribe or in self defense. I do not think the 'Harm none" rede was in place "back then", or if it where, there where exceptions. There is a difference between defending one's self (family, nation /etc), and murder. I do not think war amounts to murder, so if you are a solder you should be 'all set', though it might not be a bad idea to run it by the gods before joining an army.
That is a straw death, and those who die like that usually go to Hel. There are other places you can go when you die, but Valhalla and Folksvang is reserved for those who prove them selfs worthy and fall in combat
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Permalink Reply by jaymacfee ~ WhiteBear on
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My ancestors were Celtic and German. My other studies have been in Native American and Shinto. I personally prefer peace and harmony, but I come from warriors, and I have trained in the arts of war. I may die for my beliefs, but I refuse to go quietly. Nor will I allow those I care for to be harmed due to my allowing it to happen. I am not a soldier, though I nearly became one. I honor and respect those who serve.
If you follow the Wiccan Rede, great. It is a great guide for all magick and spiritual endeavors as well as life. I do not feel that it must keep you from serving. It has to be a personal choice.
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